In my last post, when I started writing about my day in court with Jaymie, the END of my time in Crazy Town that was wrongly ruled by my bitterness and contempt for the embodiment of my husband's mid-life crisis solution, I think I predicted two posts only. That's not gonna work out. This second installment has run a little longer than I anticipated.
So, sue me and back to court I'll go.
Nikki and I powdered our noses and chattered quietly about Jaymie's lack of hair and about how she has very diverse taste in her sexual partners. It was sort of confusing.
Geek Boy Kevin was younger than Jaymie by a year and if stereotypes hold true, probably even less mature than his total years on the planet. Even at the fake age Richard told Jaymie, 54, that put him at 30 years her senior.
Geek Boy writes comic books. Richard is an attorney.
Geek Boy was just about as tall as his new mate, about 5'10 and couldn't weigh more than 140 pounds soaking wet. (if Jaymie and Geek Boy breed, they will have some seriously scrawny kiddos. I see many years of school yard bullying in their futures.) Richard had been working out hard to impress his baby whore. He had quite a set of guns and his pecs were solid. He stands 6' 2" and usually weighed in around 190. He was looking his best for "a man of his age" as the saying goes. He sported a bit of a sagging bootie and love handles formed by many years of sitting at his desk in his office/love nest. Even with those normal age related body shape maladies, he would have nothing to fear from Geek Boy, should the bean pole get feisty with desire to defend Jaymie's honor.
There are many more contrasts and anomalies between Jaymie's two most recent fuck buddies, but I grow bored with this deviation from the end of my story. Besides, I'm sure you get the idea of the point I was beginning to make. IMHO, Jaymie latched on to the next guy in line that showed an interest in her. I consider it scripture to say, women that have affairs with married men have minimal self-esteem at best and resolute self-loathing at worst.
When Nikki and I emerged, all freshened up and ready to rumble, Richard and 'D' were waiting. They motioned us to the elevator. When we all entered and the doors closed, 'D' said he had stopped and introduced himself to Jaymie, Daddy James and Geek Boy. I glanced at Richard, wondering where the hell he took his shivering self while that little conversation had taken place. Never asked, because I felt fairly certain if he could have been in a completely different time zone than Jaymie and her Back-Up Boys, he would've given his left testicle to do so.
'D' informed me Jaymie had girded her loins and declared her intention to seek the full on CLETS restraining order, disregarding all agreements that had been made previously.
I gotta say...that threw me. I had beaten down my fighting persona, sucked up my compulsion for retribution and ultimately craved a fresh start far away from Crazy Town.
This is when 'D' showed me he was undoubtedly good at his job of client control.
"Shawn, I know you wanted a chance to speak and tell your side of the story. I understand why that would be important to you, but if you'll just trust me, I think I can get the NON-CLETS back on track. If I can't, I'll get a continuance and we will come back prepared to defend against the order."
My brain only registered the words "COME BACK". No way. Not a chance. That was not gonna work for me. It had to be done today. Now. At once. On a normal, average, boring day, I have the patience of a gnat with ADHD. This sure as hell wasn't a normal day. There would be no coming back.
"No way, 'D' We are not coming back. This ends today. I do trust you. You can do what you need to do first. But if that little cunt (yea..I said cunt in a courthouse and I despise that word. Sorry.) won't let it go, I want to fight. I want to make it as awful for her as the law will allow. Are we agreed?"
After a very brief glimpse at my increasingly uncomfortable husband, 'D' told me we were on the same page, and proceeded to lead us to the assigned courtroom at the end of the lengthy hallway.
As we approached the court of contention, we all spotted Jaymie and the Back-Up Boys (starting to like that nick-name!) ahead, entering court through the double doors.
'D' paused. "Rich, I want you to stay out here in the hall. It won't help having you in there. It would probably make matters worse. I can defend against what Shawn has done to Jaymie, but not what you did. Why risk pissing her off even more?"
At first, I protested, but 'D' gently reminded me, I had given him first shot at finishing this and as such, should yield to what he considered important for the best possible outcome. I took a very deep, cleansing breath and relented.
A chivalrous 'D', pushed open the door and held it for Nikki and myself to pass through. Instantly we saw my nemesis seated with her guards in the back row, faces forward, away from us. As soon as 'D' saw where they were seated, he ushered us to the row furthest away in the surprisingly tight space of the rectangle room.
We were not the only restraining order cases to be heard that morning. Not even close. We were fourth on the docket and there would be more after my case was finished....and it damn well would be finished today, hopefully before lunch...one way or the other.
53 comments:
Post again tomorrow!!
You're killing me:). Welcome back
Please know I am not dragging this out on purpose! When I sit down and start typing, I never know what's gonna come out. Sometimes my brain takes off on a tangent that I could never have anticipated.
Often as I write, I begin to remember many more details than I ever thought I could possibly retain! Most of the time I couldn't tell you what had for breakfast!
AND...I know I'm overly wordy!
This blog remains my continued therapy. Your comments and support serve me much better than Xanax ever did! Thank you for being there & for your patience!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
This post was about nothing new...just another chance to take a couple shots @ Jaymie. You are really self righteous Shawn. You act like Jaymie came in and destroyed the happiest marriage on earth! The truth is your marriage was a shitstorm and has been for a very long long time.
Jaymie was merely a wake up call for you to see your marriage for what it is and now you are angry because you no longer get to live in DENIAL & IGNORANT BLISS about how crappy your marriage really was. Now you have to DEAL with things you never wanted to deal with. So it's easier to focus on who you want to be the 'bad guys' in the situation ~> jaymie and the back up boys.
You had affairs on Richard as you confessed in other posts and Richard had other affairs on you before Jaymie. I believe you started this blog to not only try and make yourself look like the innocent victim and Jaymie the devil but more importantly, to try & once again escape your REALITY...however I'm not buying.
When you decide to quit blaming Jaymie (cuz I don't see you blaming his other OW's) and take some responsibility for your situation, you will stop living in such self righteousness, anger & blame.
No one is innocent in this whole situation, not even you Shawn. Get help, real help. Because your IC clearly did not do their job.
Much Love & Healing to ALL
Jenn: You sure sound like you are quite certain of the condition of my marriage. You think you know "the truth". Must be nice to be so sure of someone else's life.
I know I will never convince you that my marriage gets stronger everyday, nor do I care to try. I do want to try and persuade you that I do NOT blame Jaymie. I know Richard pursued her. Even if she had walked into his office naked with 'fuck me, please' written in lipstick on her ass, Richard should have sent her away. I get that.
But don't expect me to give her a pass either. She knew he was married. She had met me! She did Richard in his office surrounded by pics of me and the kids! No...No....No blame for Jaymie, but she made choices and those had consequences.
You said it, "No innocents here."
I'm guilty of writing the truth. I'm guilty of opening my previously ugly private life to the world. Richard AND Jaymie are guilty of giving me a reason to write.
Thanks for the healing love.
Back at cha. Shawn
You forgot to mention that you are also guilty of hurting the truly innocent people of this mess in an attempt to punish those who hurt your ego so badly. Your children are who come to mind the most.
When I read that you made Richard tell your kids that he had an affair, I knew then what kind of person you are. You hurt your children in making him do that. You wanted them to hate him and side with you in order to punish him. The cost? Causing their spirits to be crushed in an instant. Yes, Richard shouldn't have cheated, but your kids didn't need to be brought into it when both of you have hurt each other this way before. To sacrifice their feelings in order to punish is very very low. They didn't need to be a part of this, neither did Jaymie's parents, boyfriend, Richard's entire office, etc. Interesting how you were furious with Richard for telling your Father, but had no issue going around telling everyone else, regardless of how others could hurt from it.
You say that you have learned a lot from all that nastiness and I really hope you have, because so far, it really isn't shocking why Richard had an affair with a person you described as much different from yourself.
Anonymous: Yep. I made a royal shit ton of mistakes a year after DDay. Guilty of being a damaged human.
Hate that I made him tell the kids, but it wasn't so they would hate him. I would never want that. At the time, I just couldn't stomach another lie.
Hate that I completely lost my mind in Richard's office. That was like an out of body experience. Hope I never find myself that out of control again....EVER.
I write all the time that I know how screwed up I was after DDay. But, then....I was just broken. I was in so much pain I couldn't face it. I kept getting angrier and acted impulsively because I wanted to hurt those that hurt me. It felt like I was at least doing something. I had no idea how self destructive my behavior was then, but I sure do now. Maybe my mistakes will save someone else from heading into Crazy Town.
We agree that I made mistakes...LOTS of them. BUT, I have to take you to task on your last little nugget of ill-conceived wisdom...Richard didn't cheat because of anything I did or didn't do. Richard didn't select Jaymie because she was different than me, although I also thought that for a long time. Richard cheated because he was suffering a severe mid-life crisis. He craved his lost youth. Jaymie was young and very willing. She was like a drug.
I'm guilty of a whole bunch of crap, but not for Richard cheating. He owns that.
If you come up with anything else you forgot to mention, you know where to find me.
Thanks for being such a loyal reader.
`shawn`
Really Anon- judging her for making Richard tell the kids?? When something like this happens in a marriage, it's incredibly rare for the children not to know something is terribly wrong. They deserve to know the truth, and it's best coming from their parents. We told our sons, the two oldest, first; my husband couldn't face his daughter so he put that off for weeks... and guess what? She was tortured by our unwillingness to talk to her about what was happening (she is his daughter from a previous marriage and he wanted to be the one to do it, he felt he should have to face them all) and had already come to her own conclusions. She guessed right. And until he was able to face her, she had to deal with it alone. If the kids are old enough to understand relationships and to realize that something is very wrong at home, then telling them is the right and respectful thing to do.
Shawn has stated OVER and OVER and OVER again that she KNOWS her behavior was out of control back then, and that one of the purposes of this blog is to warn the rest of us not to react like she did. Come on! Are you trolls incapable of reading comprehension??
Anon, or whatever you are posting as today. From what I remember Shawn and Richards children were teens at the time. I agree somewhat but unles they are elementary age and can't grasp the idea of infidelity you should tell them what's going on in the family. They're not deaf or blind. They see the turmoil why not be honest? Why hold the secret any more. That does more damage. More dishonesty and sets an even worse example. Look shit happens and teens today are no innocents. They serpent very worldly. They might even be shocked if one of their parents never cheated. You are wrong. Put yourself in the children's position. Wouldn't you want your parents to be honest. Besides it was Richards responsibility and part of the process to humble himself in front of his children. It does a world of good for an already over inflated ego to admit what a fool you've been.
Sounds to me like you are a very inexperienced person I with regards to infidelity to make so many ignorant comments and observations because you are wrong on so many levels.
Maybe you should stick to talking about what you know and not what you think you know!
And really you had to pull the " no wonder Richard had an affair card"? PPPLLLEASE. so juvenile. How old are you? Why don't you just call her other names that you know would raise a woman's hackles like old and fat?
You scrape the bottom of the insult barrel because you are too dull and ignorant to offer anything else. You must be a very lonely person with no friends to spend so much time stalking a blog you obviously have no use for other than to spill your uneducated drivel.
Let me tell you pal you have nothing in your arsenal of insults to hurt any one of us. We've heard it all and worse. You are wasting your time here.
LOL well ok then. I didn't follow any kind of logic in that last Anon post but whatever, I didn't really expect to.
And Anon it's "my siblings and me", not "my siblings and I".
Shawn:
Welcome back.
IMO, your children had a right to know about Richard's affair.
If my Dad had an affair, I would want to know. I would be angry if my mother did not tell me.
I am sure your children could sense that his mind was elsewhere, not focused on the family, during his affair.
As for Jaymie. Yes, she knew Richard was married.
She likely has daddy issues. Or self esteem issues. So poaching a married man made her feel powerful, instead of sleazy.
I also don't think Richard had an affair because of issues in the marriage.
He likely boffed Jaymie because she was just available and easy and willing to have sex with a married man.
To him it was likely easier than risking arrest by engaging a prostitute to feed his craving for a piece of extra-marital "strange"
And I mean "strange" in more ways than just some strange tail.
OMG I cannot believe how vicious some women can be towards others. If you really dont like what you are reading then do yourselves - and the rest of us who get support from this blog - a favour and stop reading it. youre negativity is not helping anyone.
I am one of those who opted not to tell our children or anyone else about my husbands affair. My kids are in their early 20s. By some of your logic they should have been able to handle it.
My husband and I decided to stick together and work it out. I know only too well the extreme hurt that this has caused me. Why the hell would I want to inflict that pain on my children our parents and siblings and friends? It would be utterly pointless and potentially ruin relationships with so many. My husband is a good man and I have no doubt our friends and family would struggle to believe he was capable of this but he was. I may be being foolish to protect him from the abuse that would no doubt have come his way but thats my decision. To the outside world nothing has changed. My kids have no clue and thats the way I want it to stay.
I want my kids to be able to look in their dad's eyes and see a loving man who would do anything for them and not the bastard that hurt them and their mum. Why scar them for life.
We all act on our gut instincts in the worst of situations. I sometimes wish I had read all the text messages I found on his phone. My husband said I would find them too hurtful so I didnt. I wish I had asked a lot more questions at the beginning but I was so scared of driving him away I didnt. No one should criticize anyone for how they react in these circumstances. We are all different.
Shawn keep up the good work. You are supporting so many women - dont let the trolls get you down.
hugs
xxx
To all my readers:
This blog is starting to get way too many negative comments. I'm kind of over it.
They come from both sides, ripping me and defending me. Most I don't even post because they don't deserve the screen space.
Reconciliation Rockstar pointed out how shocked she is that women can be so cruel to one another.
I'm not as surprised. I try not to judge or condemn the often vicious words. As you all know, I usually post the comments and respond to many.
Here's why....people in pain are usually the ones that lash out the most. Nobody knows that better than me.
But, moving forward, unless I think the hateful comment has at least SOME merit, I'm not gonna share them. It derails us from the healing we should be focused on.
If the Trolls wanna debate me, argue with me or just virtually slap the shit out of me...they can do it knowing only I will be reading.
And...no worries, Rockstar!! The Trolls will never get me down for long. I survived betrayal. Trolls are barely a temporary annoyance.
Hope, Hugs and UNDERSTANDING, Shawn
We are close to our anniversary and are almost 3 years out.
We are together but not married. The wedding was a bad mistake. There will be no anniversaries, no rings, no vow renewal.
I went to grief counselling and worked through my loss.
I stay for the kids!
Best wishes to you! I am stubborn and resentful and will not change my mind ever!! He is the biggest disappointment in my life.
Oh and IMHO, children don't need to know details of Mommy and Daddy's disgusting affairs. If they are young adults over 18? Yes, but children, no. Assuming Shawn's children were under 18, I would have to agree with everyone else. That is a too young. Our therapist told us to not involve our children and I would never do that anyway. Please keep your kids out of your sex, lies, & betrayal shenannigans. It is not mentally & emotionally normal for a child to handle or comprehend & they shouldn't have to. They should be focused on being happy children who play, socialize & go to school. Adult business should remains adult business.
Sonya:
Psychologists do NOT agree on whether or not to tell children.
It is very controversial, and there are all sorts of opinions out there.
Most agree that a child under 8 should not be told.
Many agree, that if there is gossip out there about the affair, then it's better that both the cheater and the loyal spouse sit down and tell the children, before they hear it from an outsider.
Personally, in my experience, there is always gossip about an affair.
People may not talk about it, but they know.
The two cheaters think they have kept everything secret, and do not touch when they are in public, but people can ALWAYS recognize that limbic look two cheaters have when they are infatuated.
Children have big ears and may hear a parent gossiping about an affair and then tell your young children or adult children.
In the end, though, it's a personal choice.
BS
I had no choice whether to tell my adult children or not. My youngest son worked for his father. So I also told all the management as well. They had every right to know and every right to know and prepare for the fact that should a divorce ensue they would probably need to look for another job!!
They had every right to know why such and unqualified person was working at the business.
It's a case by case decision. No I would never subject anyone under 16 or seventeen to such tacky details about their parents lives. Children can only handle so much information. Maybe later as they grow up you can be honest and at least the hatred and bitterness from the infidelity would have subsided so the faithful parent could explain that yes they divorced because the unfaithful parent was well, unfaithful and that went against the faithful parent's values.
I understand not wanting to talk about infidelity. It's tack and nasty and confusing and opens up a whole lot of unwanted judgments and comments. But life is nasty and confusing and open to unwanted judgments and comments. Trust me your children will figure it out one way or another. It's up to you to decide what kind of relationship you want with them. I wanted a real and authentic and love me warts and all kind of relationship with my sons. And guess what, it's good and fulfilling and real.
My husband's ex-wife told their children all the nasty details of our affair. He was a crappy husband to her but he had always been an excellent father. One daughter was 25 and the other 13.
Six years later neither daughter speaks with him. He is an excellent step-father to my kids but he has a huge hole in his heart because he misses his own children.I am in no way judging Shawn for what she did as people make mistakes and do the best they can given their situations but I can tell you from personal experience that both my husband and his daughters miss out everyday on a relationship because his ex-wife told her children that because their father left her he also left them which was just not the truth.
He tried to reach out to them in every way and they just refused. The older daughter actually brought a Christmas card he had sent her with a $200 gift card to the police to try to get a restraining order against him for harassment. The police laughed at her and told her to grow up but also told my husband to walk away.
It is very sad and many may say he deserves it but do his daughters?
I am 7 months from D-Day and found your blog 2 weeks ago. I was obsessed and read every word. I didn't know if I could continue my relationship until your blog. I just reached out to the Healing Heart and need advice as I still visit crazy town from time to time. I want to move on and be happy but sometimes I set myself up for failure. Thank you for sharing your story and giving some of us hope for finding happiness. Jessie.k
Michele: You are very brave to comment here. I'm gonna respond first and try to keep the visceral responses to a minimum.
None of us know your story, but all of us know the pain your husband caused his ex-wife when he cheated. She may have been so broken, her daughters couldn't help but see. Perhaps your husband should have considered his children's reaction before he chose to commit adultery. Perhaps he could have planned his exit from the marriage in a much more compassionate and thoughtful way.
Laying the blame on his wife for all the daughter drama is very short sighted. Your husband made the selfish choices that caused ALL of his family immense pain, not just the ex-wife. At the very least he should own that. Maybe begging forgiveness and taking responsibility for his mistakes would earn him a point or two with his kids.
Granted...losing your children is a huge price to pay for being a lair and a cheater, but I don't feel sorry for him. I do feel very badly for the girls. They lost a father and will have trust issues with other men all their lives.
Thank you for sharing your story.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Jessie.k: I am so sorry you have been to Crazy Town. It is no place to hang around for long.
I'm not sure what you mean by "set myself up for failure"? If you want to elaborate, I'll do my best to help.
For now, I'll just add this...You can't control what your wayward husband does. You can only control how you react to it. Focus on what YOU need, what YOU want. Take care of you.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Michele
I'm sure you are truly shocked by your step daughters visceral reaction to their dad and more so to you. You probably never heard of children reacting to these situations before. Maybe if you had you would have waited till your now husband divorced his wife and after a while would have started up an open and honest relationship that would have included his children. Instead you are perceived as the wicked woman who broke up their family. Children think immaturely like that. LOL so do betrayed spouses.
I do feel sorry for you, and him, and the obviously maliciously crazy ex wife, and their kids and your children. Everyone is missing out on a peaceful life, but alas choices were made and here you are. Still broken hearted. I feel sad for you because it must make you feel horrible that some how you're not sure that deep down your new husband doesn't blame you for his now nonexistent relationship with his daughters. How sad and awful you must feel. Let alone that you know he is capable of cheating on you too.
You're not really certain what the ex wife told her daughters. I mean did you hear her words or are you guessing what she said?
I hope his daughters come around soon, not for his sake but their own. I hope you keep showing them the love and understanding you know they deserve.
Hey Shawn can you be more specific on what you think the BS can and should do to "take care of themselves" in the early days like Anon finds herself in.
This was such an enigma for me and everyone said it, but I didn't have the foggiest idea what to do.
TryingHard: that is a great question. The answer deserves an entire post, but for now I'll share a few ideas I wish I'd known right after DDay.
Taking care of you means doing whatever keeps you healthy and sane.
For your health....Make sure you eat well and get enough rest. Don't drink too much. Try to exercise. Walk, do yoga...whatever. Get a massage. Take nice, long warm baths. If you enjoy it...do it. If it distracts you in a pleasant way...do it. Be selfish. Pamper yourself.
For your sanity...seek professional counseling, a therapist, a pastor, a support group. Find someone to talk to. Try keeping a journal. Read, read and read some more. There are so many places online that can help you understand what you are feeling and experiencing is normal and to be expected.
Last but not least...remember two crucial things: None of this is your fault. None. And...you can't control what your WS does. You can only control how you react to it.
Hope that helps.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
I think that is VERY good advice. Especially the reading part.
I'd also like to add that you should educate yourself legally right away. Whether you are trying to reconcile or not it is imperative to know where you stand legally, just in case.
Getting good legal advice and a really good therapist you will empower yourself to make the right decision to taking care of yourself.
Michelle wrote: Six years later neither daughter speaks with him. He is an excellent step-father to my kids but he has a huge hole in his heart because he misses his own children.
Are you sure there is not more to this story than you are being told, Michelle?
After all this man lied to and gaslighted his wife in order to cheat with you.
In doing so, his ADULT children likely realized that he was not spending time with them. And, perhaps he lied to and gaslighted them too about why he was neglecting them during his affair with you.
You do realize that he HAD to be neglecting his children to spend time with you, right?
Perhaps now that they know where his time and money were actually going, they resent their dad.
If your husband was unhappy in his first marriage, a responsible thing to do would have been to ask for a divorce.
That would have set a responsible example for his children. Cheating sets a poor example.
"but I can tell you from personal experience that both my husband and his daughters miss out everyday on a relationship because his ex-wife told her children that because their father left her he also left them which was just not the truth."
Well, you are only guessing that his children are missing out. Perhaps they are glad he is gone.
Michelle: You do realize that while he was cheating with you, he was stealing time away from his children. If he took you out to dinner or lunch, or bought you anything, he was stealing money from them, too.
Michelle: Do you every worry that because he cheated on his wife and children, that one day he may also decide to lie to you and gaslight you in order to cheat on you and your children?
Trying hard wrote: I had no choice whether to tell my adult children or not. My youngest son worked for his father. So I also told all the management as well. They had every right to know and every right to know and prepare for the fact that should a divorce ensue they would probably need to look for another job!!
They had every right to know why such and unqualified person was working at the business.
Trying hard:
I hear ya'.
And, I totally understand.
I am on your side, whatever your choices were.
I agree. It is a case by case sort of thing.
Wow, wow, wow. Your comment section is getting competitive with your actual blog.
Here's my opinion. Your children are half you and half him. To tell them anything negative about either person is wrong....end of story.
I have a friend who constantly cheats on her spouse and she keeps saying "Well my mom was a cheater, so that's where I get it from"....Uhm, What?
Just out of curiosity, did yo happen to inform them of your past infidelities?
I know this blog is a healing process for you and for many. Lets not put our kinds in a cycle to have to heal as well.
As you were.
As for telling the kids controversy.... I did not want to tell my kids but in the days after Dday I was a complete mess. I was crying, not eating, sleeping either too much or not at all and my kids saw it (as much as I tried to hide it). Also, I made my WH leave for a week. He was suppose to be on a business trip.
Anyway, my then 12 year old daughter, started investigating. She checked the history on my ipad (which had searches for infidelity) and actually called her godmother because she was so worried about me. Finally, one night she said, "Mom, I know what happened with Dad". Of course she didn't know all the details but she knew he had an A. I told my WH and they had a heart-to-heart. He explained that he never meant to hurt any of us and that the OW meant nothing to him.
It has been 2 years since Dday and I still struggle. My daughter now is very supportive and recently told me she would understand if we ever divorced. She told me that she wanted me to be happy.
I think each family needs to decide on their own if the children should know. My 10 year old still does not know....all he knows is that mommy and daddy had some issues to work through and that we both loved him very much.
Here's what I don't get. Do you think they won't figure it out anyway? Especially if they are adults? 25 is an adult, 18 is an adult. 13 not so much but I would bet the adult sibling would fill them in. These adult children can form their own opinions about both parents and I'm sure they have and are probably fed up and disappointed in both of them. It really is too bad they can't be happy for their father and forgive him.
I agree no bad mouthing the other parent in divorce. Doesn't serve anyone, especially the children. But Michelle doesn't say what the mother said to her kids. She blames the ex wife for telling them. Well I'm sorry but her and her husbands choices played a role too. The ex wife is the easy scape goat in this.
Lisa: Are you effing kidding? Tell my kids about MY infidelities?? Are you being snide or are you just plain ignorant? What do you think? What purpose would that serve? Did I tell them about all of Richard's fuck buddies?? Hell to the NO!
I didn't tell my kids anything. The very first night, when I was in total shock, when Richard wouldn't call Jaymie and break it off right away, when I sent him packing....I made Richard tell them.
I wasn't gonna lie for that cheating prick. I was out of my mind with grief and disbelief. He told them he had been "dating" someone else. That's all they ever knew. When I visited Crazy Town, once in a while, I'd have to reassure them that Daddy and I were doing our best to work everything out but it might take a while. We told them not to worry. This was OUR problem and we WOULD fix it.
All truth. Gentle honesty. No more lies!
Seriously...I know I said I wanted to take the hate comments down a notch and then I kind of lost it with this reply...BUT GEEZ!! Gimmee a little credit! Throwing Richard and Jaymie under the bus is one thing, but I have never suggested using the kids to do that!
Deep breath...and back to Hope & Hugs,
Shawn
Shawn: I wasn't being snide or ignorant. I was just trying to understand the logic behind damaging the truly innocent. The ones that you are meant to protect. That may sound harsh and again snide, but it is a sincere question. Those are your flesh, what could they have possibly gained from having that information? Nothing, that was all about you.....
Also, I'm having a hard time getting past the 'cheating prick" comment. Help me to understand why this was so much more worse than what you did or what he did previously? You both set a pattern of cheating until you decided you didn't want to play anymore. What was it about him f'ing Jamie that was different than the others or than the ones that you did?
I can tell by some of the comments that you are helping some women here by putting your "this is what not to do" story out there. But, I think the fact that you did the same thing to him puts you in the same category as the "cheating prick". And if so, why why why would any women want to sympathize with you...You're one of them...HELLO!! I would probably have more respect for your intentions had you used fake names and protected your future with your husband. Thats what you said was your ultimate goal, right. Your road to happiness.
This blog isn't about helping anyone but yourself. And if in the process you can continue to humiliate others then all the better.
You haven't found your happy place, that is clear by your comment replies and attacks on your spouse. He should be institutionalized (next to you) for putting up with this.
Time to set down that bag of rocks and maybe even start making some amends. Thats the only way your heart will ever heal the way God intents it to.
save the grammar comments too, i know I'm a lousy speller. I can live with that.
I agree with those who said even a 12 year old is intelligent enough to figure out that an affair has taken place.
Sometimes, too, they know before the faithful spouse knows and then they are burdened by whether or not to tell the loyal spouse.
Yes, when a parent cheats, it puts their children in a terrible position.
They may be exposed to embarrassing humiliating gossip about the cheating spouse, or they may have other issues to deal with due to gossip of the affair.
But as for telling them the truth about the cheating spouse. ...Affairs are all about lies and secrecy and deception, and I think we all agree that is a terrible way to teach a child to interact with the people they love.
So, in the end, would NOT telling lies to them about what is causing all the familial distress, be teaching them that telling lies, and hiding the truth is an okay behavior?
Telling lies is not okay. The affair is about lies and secrecy.
So, what message will continuing to lie to them about the reality of the marital issues send?
As others have noted. The children likely already know about a parent's affair.
So when they ask, why not show them respect by being honest. Why not show them by example that honesty is the best policy when dealing with loved ones.
Badmouthing the spouse and telling the truth are two different topics.
I don't think, even if divorced, a spouse should badmouth a spouse to the children.
But telling them mom and dad are having conflict because one or the other had an affair is telling the truth.
Now telling about affairs that occurred prior to the childrens' birth is not necessary, IMO.
Only the affair in their present life is the affair that will adversely effect the child.
Lisa: I used the cheating prick reference to describe Richard because that is how I felt about him the first night when I made him tell the kids. All the kids ever heard about the affair was that moment of minimal truth.
I wasn't gonna lie and say Richard was going away on business. No more LIES! Richard told them he had to leave. They asked why. He said because I've been dating someone else.
That's it. I sure as hell never told them your daddy is a cheating prick.
NOW>...about me being a cheater. I don't know how many times I can try to explain that I was young and VERY stupid. I got married too soon. We both cheated back then.
THE KEY...BACK THEN was over 25 years ago! I grew up. I started to care about our future. I committed to my marriage and starting a family. I thought he had, too. When he cheated with Jaymie he didn't just cheat on me. He cheated on our family.
You wanna hold me to the fire for something I did over 25 years ago, fine. Stop reading.
You can save your advice. I have no amends to make. My Road to Happy had an extended detour through Crazy Town, but it was the path I had to take to recover after DDay and reconcile with Richard. It wasn't pretty. If I knew then what I know now, I sure as hell would have searched high and low for a different path, but what's done is done. I made it. WE made it.
I think I covered all your questions even if you really didn't expect straight answers.
`shawn`
Lisa wrote: You haven't found your happy place, that is clear by your comment replies and attacks on your spouse. He should be institutionalized (next to you) for putting up with this.
Whoa whoa whoa, Lisa.
I detect animosity toward Richard as well as Shawn.
If you are hear because your spouse cheated.
Do you really think YOU should be institutionalized for putting up with YOUR cheating spouse?
Seriously your confusing posts in which you whipsaw between chastising Shawn for calling her husband a "cheating prick," and then claiming Richard should be institutionalized, are making my head spin.
If you are NOT here because your spouse cheated....that's kinda' odd.
I never visited blogs like this prior to experiencing infidelity.
Can you tell us your story Lisa, so we won't be so confused?
I agree that kids know something is going terribly wrong and to lie to them is a slap in the face to them. I agree with BS, there is a huge difference between honesty and bad mouthing.
Shawn I get that you were very young and made some awful mistakes, Richard and you both did in your young years. It does make me wonder something though. In 25 years, when Jaymie gets cheated on by her husband, will you feel solace and compassion for her or will you think the devil got her due?
A Loyal Reader who has been helped immensely by your story, who is anxiously awaiting the next installment, but just had to ask. ALR
BS
Wise words and I want you to know they were not wasted on me. Can't say the same thing about the rest of the posters here. Jeez!
This is just common sense to me.
Also the whole part about putting your crap on the "innocents". Well "innocents", I will say applies to very young children, but I'm sorry, and I don't know what planet some of these posters live on, but there is very little innocence with teenagers. They know way more than most adults today. Very worldly and not shocked. Anyone who has parented a teen knows this.
Trust me, they know, they just don't care. There's only one thing teens are worried about and that is themselves. Same said for adult children.
Put yourself in their place. If you knew this about one of your parents would you have taken sides?? No, it would be their problem and you would have been horrified over it and pissed off because maybe your prom plans had to change. I had a girlfriend whose husband of 25 years left her. Her 18 year old daughter was most pissed because it was two weeks before her senior prom and well now everything was just going to be awful for prom!!! No, not her Mom and her devastation, her prom. And this is a smart, sweet young lady.
OK well that's all I have to say about that subject because this thread has gotten way too tedious for me.
Can't fix stupid. Enough said!
ALR: You asked, "In 25 years, when Jaymie gets cheated on by her husband, will you feel solace and compassion for her or will you think the devil got her due?"
That is a good question. I hope I never hear a thing about Jaymie ever again, but just for the sake of pondering the unimaginable for a minute...
I think if I have to pick one of the two choices you offered, I say I HOPE I'd feel some compassion for her.
That doesn't mean I'd rush out to buy her a bottle of wine and hold her hand while she's sobbing. But I think I would share the online link to the Healing Heart with her. I wouldn't have to be the one that helped her find her Road to Happy. There's lots of compassionate people on that forum to give her an assist!
And, I'll get to the next post regarding the End of Jaymie by this weekend. PROMISE!!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
I have just started reading your blog in the last few weeks and have found it quite helpful. It has been 10 months since D Day for me and I am still on the emotional roller coaster. I have been with my partner since I was 15, married at 20 and together for 29 years when he had a 2 year affair with a manipulative other woman. He pursued her, after her coming on to him and making it clear she was interested. And they agreed on a friends with benefits relationship. However, that didn't last and they started to develop feelings for each other (makes me sick just to type it) and she became more demanding of his time. He tried to end the relationship several times and she used threats of suicide to keep him coming back. I know all of this because like you, I needed all the answers. I hacked into my husbands email and read every email between the two of them, as well as several drafts that he didn't send, trying to figure out how to tell her it was over. He tried to end it the first time after only 5 months. This made me angry, that this could have been over in only 5 months, but she manipulated him into staying with her. Of course he was still in the infatuation phase and let her manipulate him partly because he didn't want to give her up. I realize that the other woman isn't the only one at fault, but I have been so angry at her, because she knowingly did everything she could to prevent him from doing the right thing. Even after he told her he loved me and I didn't deserve this and that it was destroying him, she still wouldn't let him go. Even after D Day, she has continued to try to contact him every 3 months, interfering with our healing and reopening our wounds. I wish I had your courage to confront her and tell her to F**k off and leave us alone. Our counselor has advised against it, especially considering her psychotic tendencies. It is killing me though to not tell her how well we are doing and to tell her what I think of her. I started a journal about 2 weeks after D Day and it has been my savior. Instead of lashing out and doing things I will regret, I have written my thoughts down and allowed myself to reflect before reacting. It has helped but I sure would like to let her know what I think of her.
Your blog has saved my life.Thank you. I am so similar to you it's scary.
Diane
Shawn,
I just finished reading your entire blog. I laughed, I cried, I understood. Thank you. I'm 2 months past DDay.
Diane
Shawn,
I have had two months now to ponder my decision to be open with the kids and the entire family about Walt's affair. The Other Woman actually wrote this to me, telling me, and I quote, "you have hurt and embarrassed many innocent people to something he explained was over. You magnified, exaggerated old news to atomic proportions, for what purpose? Attention? Pity? Victimizing yourself in public? " in response to my exposing the secret affair they were having. Well, I'm not sorry I did. Enough with the lies already. By the way, my name "Phenomenal" comes from the poem by the late Maya Angelou entitled "Phenomenal Woman". One of his kids sent it to me about 3 weeks post DDay.
Best regards and thank you,
Phenomenal (Diane)
Diane
SHAWN: Chill out, geez. I thought a blog was a forum where everyone could have their own opinion. I didn't know that if I didn't agree with something that you wrote I had to keep it to myself. Sometimes opposing feedback helps you to become a better person. Just because you had your reasons for doing what you did doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. Isn't that why you are writing this blog, because you know you didn't do the right thing?
BS: Was married for 20 years, divorced for 2 now, 4 kids who I told NOTHING to about 'the affair'. It wasn't their business, I didn't lie, I just choose to protect them from that.
The only thing harder than dealing with getting divorced is (1)seeing your kids hurt (so why fucking add to that); and (2)knowing another women was more important to him than you and the kids you gave him.
thats my story....
Lisa,
I don't think anyone commenting here should be criticized or pass judgement. Regarding telling the kids, a lot has to do with the age, stability, and maturity level of the children, the relationship with the child, and how much that child has seen/witnessed/knows already. I believe that secrets are more harmful than the truth, pretty much no matter what. But that's just me. In addition, expecting the betrayed person to have enough together to contain all the hurt and anger and confusion is asking a lot. Not everybody has the ability nor the personality style to keep it together in a crisis. We just do what we can and try to live up to our ideals of what is best. Fortunately in my situation, all the kids were stable adults. I have no idea how I would have handled it if my kids were young. All I know is that it was like getting kicked in the gut. I could hardly breathe, much less think. I ended up finding out one day before a destination wedding in Maui. I lost it and had to leave to get back to the states. Some family members called me "selfish".
Diane
People think that by keeping the truth from the kids that they are doing their kids a favor. I don't think so. I think it keeps them from truly comprehending and working through the painful realities of their family. I think it keeps them confused and I think it prevents them from healing.
Lisa:
Thank you for sharing your story.
I am sorry to hear that you were married to such a bonehead.
Obviously he cared little about his children, and that is very sad.
Obviously he is a self-absorbed, self-centered type of dad.
One concern I have that I hope you will be open to considering.
Of course, it's still your call whether or not to tell your children what their dad did, but please consider this:
If they are 12 and older, I worry that your children will blame themselves for the divorce rather than realizing that the divorce occurred 'cause daddy could not keep his pants zip.
And, he was the type of guy that confuses lust with love.
If he knew what love was he would man up and tell them the truth of why he left the family and is now likely neglecting them to romance the OW.
IMO, that would be better than having their imaginations run wild, or have them blaming themselves.
Also Shawn has always been open to other opinions, but, IMO, she got a little snide because you appear to be bashing her.
Why?
Are you angry because she stayed with Richard, instead of giving him his walking papers?
Or are you angry because Richard stayed with Shawn rather than running off with the OW?
Or, are you just as hurt and angry as the rest of us BSs here?
The BSs here are on YOUR side, whether you divorced or reconciled.
No matter what choices you choose to make.
I am sorry your boneheaded husband is not treating your children well.
You know what, I would truly like to smack him upside the forehead and ask WTF were you thinking?
You know what, I sometimes still what to smack my own husband upside the forehead and ask WTF were you thinking, and we have reconciled.
It's okay to be angry about the behavior of someone that hurt you.
But you and I and Shawn and the other BSs here......let's be friends. :)
Lisa: I'm a little tender when it comes to my kiddos. When you asked if I told them about my infidelity, it tripped my bitchy trigger.
I don't claim to know what is best for everyone going through the maze of madness after DDay. Usually, we all just do what we can most of the time and what we have to when we find the strength.
I do know that there is safety in numbers on the Road to Happy. The more support the better.
I am very sorry for your pain and I would never want to compound it.
So lets move on and as BS said, let's be friends.
I'll respect your choices. I hope you can try to respect mine, too.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Phenomenal Diane: Only 2 months out? That's a real rough patch. None of this blows over quickly. Just when you think you're gaining some ground, you can be knocked back hard. Be prepared.
You found a safe place here. I hope we can offer you some measure of comfort and guidance as you begin to heal. Since you read the whole blog, at least you know what NOT to do as you move forward.
I do have one quick piece of advice...if the OW contacts you again, let her know in no uncertain terms that you will be seeking a restraining order. She needs to stay away from you and your WH. She doesn't get to tell you what YOU did wrong. PLEEEZE! If it helps you to reach out to others while you are grieving, do what you gotta do.
Please consider IC. You gotta heal you before you can heal the marriage.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
wow..at 25 when you were married and you cheated you were silly and immature.
Jaymie , i gather , is younger .She has an affair with a married man old enough to be her grandfather and she is a whore.
And , Jaymie , wasnt even married.
Were the men you cheated with married ?
Not that your cheating excuses what Jaymie did but i think if you can put it down to immaturity why cannot someone even younger than you be equally or more immature ?
Anonymous: Your logic is sound. I want to address your question, "why cannot someone even younger than you be equally or more immature?"
I agree, Jaymie was very immature and easy prey for Richard.
Was I a whore when I cheated? I suppose many would say I was. Looking back, I'd say I was surely close to it even though I wasn't working to steal another woman's husband...and there lies the line Jaymie crossed.
Is Jaymie still a whore even though she was immature? You betcha!! She begged Richard to leave me and the kids! If you're doing a side by side comparison, she wins the sleaze bag slut prize between the two of us hands down!
Thanks for asking.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
I did not tell my kids. I have two boys. They were 9 and 11 at the time. It would have shattered their world. In all the comments the one I feel the most alignment with in terms of the kids, forgiving my H and info I would want to know or not, it's that of reconciliation rockstar. Hoping that makes me one too, two years out and all of us doing really well.
I think what bothers me most about the tone and words of the negative comments is the thread of judgment woven through them. I would hope that there would not be one single betrayed spouse on any forum who would JUDGE another for the way they handled anything after dday. Even if it's not what you would have done. It is such an incredibly personal decision and sometimes we make mistakes in processing it all. And as much as we don't want to bring our kids into our pain it happens, either actively or because they just find out.
What I admire about Shawn is she shared all of her story in an effort to help. I share mine too, on Healing Heart from time to time to try to help. Did I do everything right? Well I can tell you I'm 90% healed. My marriage is about the same. My H is a different man. I'm a different person. My kids are fine. I've learned a lot. I'm two years out. If I did something differently could I be 100% in all the areas? Maybe but doubtful. The bottom line is the purpose of these blogs and forums is to offer love, understanding and support in a time when you need it more than ever. If someone's experience can touch me and give me hope, or if I can do the same for someone else, it's all good. Shawn put herself out there, craziness and all. She doesn't try to make herself look like a saint or a victim in all of this. She recognizes she would do things differently in hindsight. Don't take pot shots at her for that.
If you are judging and you've never been cheated on, all I can say is stop it. You should feel lucky. One of the big misconceptions and things that make me sick is, maybe the spouse deserves to be cheated on." Um, nobody deserves that pain. Truly. If you haven't been cheated on I hope you never are. The pain is life-altering and you cannot fathom it unless you've been there. Maybe the marriage isn't perfect, ok so what? You promised to love honor and be faithful to your spouse through good times and bad. If you are not in a good time, go get marital counseling. If that doesn't work get a divorce. DO NOT have an affair.
xx Juleth
To the woman who married her affair partner...Michele. I am not even sure you will read this, but. Why are you on this board? There's no tone to that question, I just want to know? Unless you have been touched by infidelity in some way, you don't usually end up on an infidelity blog. You were the other woman but it appears that was 6 years ago? Why now?
I have to also say, marrying you did not fix what was wrong with your now husband to make him cheat on his wife. It had nothing to do with his ex-wife and you are only hearing his side of it anyway. Unless he figured out why he cheated I would be a nervous cat if I were you. I'm not saying that to be nasty or vindictive, I say it because it's the truth. Even if he had stayed married but they just brushed the affair under the rug, I'd be nervous there would be another affair.
Please do not judge the ex-wife or her daughters. It's very sad they don't have a relationship with their father but frankly you are not the one to try to mend that. They are not receiving you as in their eyes, their father broke up their family and their world and you were the one who assisted in that. It's nice that you care but you should've thought about that before you had an affair with him and participated in the demise of their entire world. I'm not saying this to be mean but as Shawn said, there are consequences to having an affair and unfortunately the man losing his daughters is one of them. I'm sure you've had your own consequences as the other woman because nobody comes out of an affair ok, at least not for a while. I do encourage you to understand, even six years later, why your husband really cheated. It's a character flaw, and he needs to understand what and why it manifested in an affair. Blaming another person (bad spouse) for cheating is really passing the buck in a huge way. Contrary to how you might be receiving my words I would hate to see another failed marriage as a result.
xx Juleth
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