After 'D' propitiously placed Nikki and I as far away from Jaymie and the Back Up Boys as possible in the rather cramped quarters of the court room, he retreated. To where, I had no idea. I couldn't very well turn around to see where he had ventured off to because to do so, meant showing a full face frontal to Jaymie and the Back Up Boys. (do I stay with the new combined male moniker or apply the old handles of Daddy James and Geek Boy Kevin? Back Up Boys seems to be so much more concise and expedient. Wish I had thought of it sooner. But...it is the last time I intend to write their respective names in this blog except maybe in the comments section....Perhaps they deserve to be declared individually....Mmmmmm.....pondering....wasting screen space and your time....Sorry about that....I'm gonna go with specific personalization since this is their last hurrah! I'm certain they would appreciate the extra effort of the additional key strokes.)
Where was I? Oh, yeah. Where in the hell was 'D' going? Nikki whispered, almost in panic mode, "Where's he going? Why is he leaving us here? Don't you feel vulnerable without him?"
NOPE. I didn't. I can't really explain it. Nerves should have had me fidgeting and uptight. You'd think I'd have been straining to keep my morning tea down. At the very least, I should have needed to pee again in a major way.
My calm and unruffled demeanor surprised and pleased me. I almost felt like the Old Me. Strong. Confident. Self-reliant. Maybe even a little Spunky! I don't mean I was gonna jump up and get all sassy and bossy with the judge and bailiff in close proximity, I'm merely saying I felt OK about whatever was gonna happen.
What were the possible outcomes here?
1. Jaymie gets her way and decides to fight it out with me. We share stories of despicable debauchery with anyone within ear shot and in the end I am slapped with a restraining order listed with all law enforcement agencies in the country for three years. OR...
2. Jaymie backs her skinny ass down and we stick with the Non-Clets order, also valid for three years, the judge approves it, we sign it and Richard and Jaymie get to retain some small measure of dignity by not discussing their shameful behavior in open court.
Either way....I'm golden, People! Jaymie will be out of my life. Sure, I preferred the second scenario because always getting the extra pat-down when you fly could get old, but other than that, I just wasn't overly concerned. Jaymie and I both wanted the same thing. (No, I don't mean Richard.) She wanted me WAY gone and I finally wanted no more of her either.
This would be my Independence Day no matter the outcome.
Nikki and I sat quietly and listened to the first few cases. MAN! There are some authentically fucked up people on the planet! (I know. For a while, I was one of them.) Scary shit. I'm not kidding. To this day, I wonder if this one woman that was seeking a permanent order against a stalker old boyfriend is living safe and sound. Made me shudder! I sent some nasty emails and visited a church. That guy was following the poor woman everywhere and trashing her property.
Put anything in perspective, Jaymie?? Maybe we could make this go away, huh?
Again...NOPE. 'D' comes back and quietly spoke to me saying he had been talking with Jaymie in the hall and she wanted to move forward with the Clets order. He could not convince her otherwise. Our case would be heard next.
OK. So be it. Our case was called and we moved to the desks in front of the judge. Now our seats faced one another. I made sure Jaymie saw me look her right in the eyes. Not a threatening gaze, just a glance that said what the angels of the Healing Heart had shared, "Hold your head up. Be strong. You did nothing wrong." After that first eye contact, she never looked at me again.
Then, I sat down next to 'D', crossed my arms on the desk with my wedding ring hand on top pointed toward Jaymie like a laser beam. That just felt right.
Jaymie was all on her lonesome at her desk, she never sat, looking very timid, very distressed and kind of wretched. She had a folder presumable chalked full of copies of email I had sent.
Awesome. Let's read every one out loud.
There was no swearing in. Nothing formal at all. Just the judge asking Jaymie simple questions. Maybe he was purposely dumbing it down for the frightened pixie. He told her he knew that there had been a Non-Clets agreement signed yesterday but she had chosen to disallow that document to be approved today. He was bewildered by that decision. He asked, "Why is that, Ms. Sim****?"
Jaymie, in a barely audible tone answered with something that sounded like, "She has a lawyer and I don't." (Waaaaaaaaa! Want some cheese with that whine??)
The judge was ever so patient. "Why are you here, Ms. Sim****?"
To me that meant...Let's get the party started, shall we?
"A year ago I had affair with her husband. She has been harassing me since she found out."
Harassing is such a subjective term, but there are legal standards. The judge sensed our case was not going to reach the level of LEGAL harassment and right away, he started to steer toward the path of least resistance. He asked 'D' if he hoped the Non-Clets order could still be implemented. 'D' assured him, "Absolutely, your Honor. We believe we all want the same thing here."
Back to the whiner, "Ms. Sim****, are you alone here today?"
"No. My Dad and boyfriend came, too."
"Why don't we have your father join you at the plaintiff's table?"
Daddy James maneuvered through the maze of chairs up to the front of the court to sit next to his darling baby whore bag. (Some of you hate when I resort to name calling, but I plead for your understanding here. This is my FINAL post about Jaymie! Allow me a little leeway.)
The judge welcomed Daddy James to his courtroom and then the cajoling began. I'm paraphrasing here...the judge started with:
Ms. Sim****, I have read the Non-Clets order and it appears to be very thorough. Maybe we could begin by reviewing it and see where you feel it may not be what you are looking for.
Then he asked Daddy James to take a moment and discuss the options available to his daughter with her and perhaps offer advice on how to proceed.
That may not have been exactly what His Honor said, but what he meant was clear enough.
Jaymie has every right to plead her case, but she could walk out of here with no order at all if she pushed her luck. The bird in the hand, the Non-Clets order, was looking pretty good. She may want to reconsider.
After a few awkward moments of the hushed conference between Daddy James and Jaymie, the judge asked them if they had any questions.
"May we speak to Mr. 'D' outside for a moment?"
The Judge with the patience of Job, nodded to 'D' and 'D' couldn't get to the door quick enough.
After they left, I moved back to sit with Nikki, wondering aloud, but discreetly, about how poor, poor Richard might be holding up out there. I can't fully express to you what a mental train wreck he was. I took some measure of satisfaction in that.
A recess was taken in our case and the Judge heard another while Jaymie met with 'D' and Daddy in the hall. Later, 'D' would share that Jaymie was easily convinced by Daddy James to move on and let it go. Ironic that is exactly what so many (stupid) people say to betrayed spouses, right?
'D' only had to assure her that if any of the specifics of the Non-Clets order were violated by me within the three year period, the order would automatically revert to a full Clets restraining order, then he left the two of them to confabulate.
'D' returned to his seat next to me. All we could do now was wait. Soon, Daddy James returned alone to his perch next to Geek Boy in the back. Maybe Jaymie had to potty. Less than 5 minutes after Daddy James, Jaymie came back, almost rushing through the doors. Weird.
'D' stepped toward the back to ask if they were ready. They said yes. After the current case being heard was completed, he informed the bailiff that we were ready to proceed.
Back to the desks in our previous positions, the judge asks, "Ms. Sim****? What have you decided?"
"I want to add something to the Non-Clets order and then I'll sign it."
"What is it you want to add?"
Get ready....You are gonna LOVE this!!
"She has to keep her husband away from me, too!"
I almost laughed out loud right there!
I know I sucked in a quick breath and held it for a while with my lips pinched together. The idea was just so absurd! 'D' didn't need to ask me if I would approve such an addition to the order. He felt he could answer for me.
"We would be fine with the addition, Your Honor. I will write it in now."
The very smart judge knew the not-so-smart plaintiff was moving toward the outcome he had desired from the get-go. Even though this was a totally non-enforceable requirement in the order, he nodded his approval. The bailiff handed the agreement to 'D'. He made the changes. I initialed them. (while doing my best not to snicker!) The agreement was given back to Jaymie, then the bailiff again, who gave it to the judge, who passed it to the clerk.
It was a done deal. Up until this point, I hadn't said a word. No one had even said my name except the bailiff when he called our case. But, now the judge turned to me.
"Mrs. Fe****, do you fully understand that if you violate this Non-Clets order you will find yourself right back in here?"
I answered him succinctly and loudly enough for all to hear, "Your Honor, I never want to see or hear from Ms. Sim**** ever again. Thank you for your time."
Alrighty then!! We're outta there! Jaymie, Daddy James and Geek Boy Kevin left first. 'D' said he needed to stay and finalize the order with the clerk. He would meet us in the hall with Richard.
I was jubilant! Back in the hall, Richard was sitting close to the doors. I guess he saw our smiles because he went from frightened puppy face to the look of a man that had just been pardoned from death row.
I couldn't wait to tell him about the new clause Jaymie added to the order. I had to keep HIM away from HER! Hilarious, right?
He dropped his head. He said he knew why she added that.
When Jaymie and her Daddy were in the hall, Richard had been in the men's room. Richard had completed his piss just as Daddy James left Jaymie alone in the hall. Richard saw what he thought was a boy with his head down in a book sitting by the doors of the courtroom. He walked toward him (her!) to take the seat he had been in pre-pee-pee trip. He (she!) looked up at him and he smiled.
Then, a second too late...he realized his mistake! Damn his poor vision! Damn, Jaymie's boyish new hair cut! Panic setting in!! He starts to retreat just as Jaymie leaps to her feet and makes for the safety of the court to announce the addition to the order.
I wish I could've been a fly on the wall for that accidental encounter!
The perfect ending. Nearly poetic.
The only way this day was gonna get any better was if I took my friend, Nikki, to a fine lunch, with wine and then did a little shopping at Nordstrom. So, that's exactly what I did.
Bye, Bye, Bitch Whore. THE END.
45 comments:
Great ending!!! So funny "she has to keep her husband away from me". How about Jaime needs to keep her legs closed. I would have love to tell her Richard's not into boys so you have nothing to worry about. You rock and thank you for letting us inside your journey. Many of us have only dreamed about doing half of what you did. Wishing your family a lifetime of happiness.
"She has to keep her husband away from me, too!"
I DID LAUGH...OUT LOUD! But not at Jaymie, WITH HER! GOOD FOR HER for adding that. A nice little cherry on the topping for the idiot Richard. Ya know, the one that created this whole mess in the first place...YOUR DEAR DARLING HUBBY WHO YOU LET SLIDE THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE EXHAUSTING DRAMA.
Bravo Bravo Shawn you won alright...the boobie prize. A dishonest, disloyal, prostitute buying, vegas vacation ruining, damn near pedo affair having, ass hat idiot jewish pervert HUSBAND!!! Yayyyyyy!
Oh & you actually believe the smile story? YOU BOUGHT THAT? Bahahahahahahhahahaha!
Wow shawn you got a lonnnnng way to go not just in your healing, but in your gullibility.
I hope this affair haunts Richard for the rest of his pathetic life. We already know it will yours bat shit crazy lady.
Tootles.
Glad you enjoyed The End, Ladies! Thanks for reading and for being such a important piece of my recovery puzzle. I can only hope I have also been a part of yours.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
JennBunny, RobbySterling or IrishMomento...Your name du jour always gives me a chuckle.
I told you I'm not gonna publish anymore of your comments unless they contain a little constructive conversation combined with the streaming vitriol.
The only reason I'm responding to you at all is because you have certainly peaked my curiosity.
Why do you read my blog?
I can't understand it. You have an unhealthy, deep seeded hatred toward Richard and me. You waste time reading and commenting.
If you wanna share why...I'll post your answer, even if it is filled with hostility and just plain old nastiness!
From: The Bat Shit Crazy Lady
Love the pet name you picked for me!! Sweet.
All OW call the wife Bat Shit Crazy Woman and I've never understood what bat shit has to do with crazy????
Great post Shawn. I've got more to say later.
Peace to you dear sister.549
Shawn:
Poor Richard. It's a good thing he had already relieved himself before running into Jaime.
omg!!!! good bye!!!
How will you keep Richard away from other "Jaymies " ?
Anonymous: That's an easy question to answer!
I won't be keeping Richard away from other"Jaymies".
He'll be doing that. He will keep himself from cheating again. If I didn't think so, our marriage would be over.
Your next question would be....How can I be so sure?
My answer...I don't have a crystal ball. No one does.
But, I've learned so much. I'll never trust blindly again. If, God forbid, I did face another DDay, it would be excruciating, for sure, but I know I'd survive. I'd be OK.
My marriage is worth the minimal risk.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Anonymous said...
How will you keep Richard away from other "Jaymies " ?
I agree with Shawn's response.
Richard has to keep himself away.
The good news about being blindsided about an affair is that now we know the clues.
It will be unlikely that we will be blindsided again, now that we are so aware. We are no longer naive and trusting.
Now, I have a plan firmly in place should my husband ever cheat again.
It's much more difficult to think rationally when one experiences a surprise revelation.
Personally, I don't think anyone should ever be trusted 100 percent.
My grandmother used to tell me this, and she was right.
Different Anonymous from the one who asked the question about "other Jaymies", but I too have a question; When I read that she asked to keep him away from her, a red flag went up in my head,then reading what he said about smiling and the mistake...made it worse. Something in my gut said he was lying, and he knew who it was, but panicked when he realized she wasn't interested in his reconciling smile. Did that ever cross your mind? I'm not saying that in snark, it's just an unsettling feeling I have when piecing it all together in my mind.
Shawn
I think I missed something in the story. Were you ordered to take the blog down or quit using Baby Whore's name by the courts? Maybe I mis-read that somewhere?
I don't get how her case ever got to court!! I thought the courts were short staffed and yet this nit wit gets to take her "case" to court and waste tax payer time & money because she didn't know better about not screwing married men and REALLY pissing off their wives?? It's crazy.
I hope this is also a lesson to people who are either in affairs or thinking of having affairs.
Interfering in others lives is very dangerous. Tends to piss people off and they act and do really stupid, crazy, out of the norm, behaviors. This should come as a shock to no one! Shakespere said "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." So why is everyone surprised when this happens???
And, more to the point. Schmoopy soul mate?? Yeah, when the going gets tough and you are in the daylight, your not nearly as appealing as when everything was secret. So yes they will throw you under the bus so fast it will make your head spin when they are finished with you. There's also no surprise there either.
Everyone handles traumas differently. Some of us are more expressive and lions when protecting what belongs to us. Some people just let the world run them over. You say that you did everything wrong when you were in crazy town but I'm not sure you would do it any differently. I know I wouldn't and I was in my own somewhat crazy town afterwards. Sure looking back on it I may say I'd never do that again, but I've learned the hard way. Never say never.
You did a great job on the blog. Don't know if you will start a new one or not. I hope so. It's been very helpful and fun to read.
If this is the end, Good Bye and Good Luck. I wish you and Richard Crazy Bat Shit Happiness :)
Shawn,
This month marks two years since I discovered your blog. I want to thank you for sharing your journey (and hopefully continuing to share a bit along the way). Your blog was a place of comfort and reassurance for me in those early, dark days. I wouldn't wish the pain, heartbreak, crazy feelings, etc. upon anyone, but it is so nice to have others that "get it". My H and I are still on a journey of healing, but we have made great strides. Thank you for sharing your story.
Kari
Different Anonymous that wonders if I ever thought Richard was lying about the accidental encounter with Jaymie: I can only share that if you had seen Richard then, you wouldn't even ask. He was a red hot mess. All he wanted was for the drama to be over and our family to remain intact. He had let me run amok for a year, leaving many innocents damaged in my wake.
He would never have risked approaching Jaymie that day. He had wanted to stay by my side in court. He wanted the whole nightmare to be over.
Maybe you had to be there to believe me, but I feel confidant that my gut was on point this time.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
TryingHard: I'm not sure how it got to court either, but I guess its just not that tough to get a temporary order, then you have to go to court to make it permanent.
You bring up a good point...once the affair is out in the open, the fog evaporates and reality doesn't allow for further fantasy.
I do tell the tale of my mistakes and try to stress why it DID not help me, but you may be right...My Road to Happy might have had to trek through Crazy Town. If I had unleashed all my wrath on Richard instead of spreading it around, I can't imagine how our marriage would have survived.
There are good tips to be found in my experiences like... Start a blog! That helped me in a positive way. And lots of bad ideas like...Keeping Jaymie in my life...destructive to the 100th power!
I think I'll stick around for a while. I think infidelity can seep back into a marriage from time to time for many years after you have moved past it and found happiness again.
Trauma that severe almost always leaves scars. I will always want to have my online circle of supportive readers!
I wish you nothing but safe travels on your Road to Happy, too!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Kari!!! I am so glad to hear you are moving forward on your Road to Happy! It does help make the journey a tiny bit smoother when you walk with others that "get it".
You do not have to thank me for writing. It was pivotal in my recovery. I was quite selfish about it.
I'm not gonna vanish just because the story of the first year after the affair is over. I need you people!!
Thanks for checking in!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Scabs: Tell Jaymie Good Bye, but not me!! Maybe for me you can just say...see you soon??
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Good riddance to Jaymie and all the other Jaymie's out there. I think your ride thru crazy town was helpful. I don't think you would be where you are now without it. I sometimes feel stuck now because I didn't go crazy-ass on the ow. Like that was an important step I missed along the way.
I think if states don't want to be involved in people's personal lives concerning adultery in marriages, then they should also not be involved from the fallout of such actions. I think the court should have thrown Jaymie out on her ass with a bill for wasted court costs.
Tangerine
To the anonymous poster.
If I don't have my contacts in I can't see faces clearly. All I see is a blur and the hair color.
I often smile at strangers, too.
Particularly when I am about to invade their space by sitting next to them on the only space available on a public bench.
Still, when I am not wearing my contacts, I could trip over my own mother, and not realize it immediately.
So, I believe that Richard did not recognize Jaime, particularly with her new boycut hairstyle.
Shawn, thank you for your blog. It has helped me alot in my journey through this. In your situation you kept contacting the other woman. In my situation, the other woman has kept contacting my husband. I wonder if you or any others reading have advice for this. The first time was a couple of months after D day, I was still checking his emails and found a trail of a few emails. She asked to meet him and he said it wasn't a good idea, that he was working on his marriage, but she persisted and I got angry and sent a letter I had drafted but was advised not to send by my therapist. She responded to me, after reaming my husband out for getting me to respond. My therapist had advised me that I may not want to read anything from her, as it could be lies and cause more confusion, so I sent her response to him and my husband so they could read them. The therapist advised that she was just being hurtful and nasty and trying to convince me that he loved her and only came back to me for the house and material things. There was nothing in there that we hadn't talked about. So, I let it go. Since then she has contacted him every 2 to 3 months with various tactics. Needing closure, just want to talk, want to exchange gifts we bought each other. In some she was nasty, calling him every name under the sun, then the next would be how much she loves him and misses him; she tried every tactic she could. She is very manipulative, even when they were together he tried to leave her several times and she used threats of suicide to bring him back. She even threatened she would come to his office or home if he didn't respond to her emails. Some we responded to (I read and approved before he sent. The last email was about how she didn't think she would ever get over her love for him. It has been almost 2 months since that last contact and it's coming up to the anniversary date of when they first met, so I'm anxious that she may contact him again. It is also coming up to one year since D day, which may also be a trigger for her to contact him. 1 year since it was over for them. Just looking for any support or comments on any experiences others have had like this. Thanks.
SL
I don't think richard recognized her. After all it had been over a year??
Also when you see people out of context you aren't sure who they are. So because jaymie was all likely clothed and her legs were over her head, I'm pretty sure he didn't expect her to be sitting there.
Ok I'm still laughing over the whole "keep your husband away from me" bit. What a stupid nit wit!!!
@ Anonymous: Your husband and you need to send her a "no contact" request. This can be done by email. It should read something like this: "I am requesting that you do not contact me through any means, including but not limited to, regular mail, email, telephone, text messages, voicemails etc. for any reason." If she continues to contact you or him you then bring the emails to the police as proof of harassment. The police will most likely just speak with her and let her know if she does not stop contacting him she can be charged with harassment and/or you will be able to get a restraining order against her. I am rather surprised your therapist hasn't suggested this course of action. It appears as if this women herself has gone to crazy town and who knows what trouble she may cause you and your husband.
Anon
I am so sorry you are going through this anguish. Unfortunately that's what a lot of OW turn into once they are dumped. Also given the fact that most other women on somewhere along the continuum of sociopath/psychopath/narcissist I can understand why your shrink is discouraging you to go No Contact and ignore the letters or emails.
That said, you have tried the NC and she still persists. I see nothing wrong with you and your husband sitting down and composing an adamant letter that the relationship is over permanently and that she is no way to contact either of you again. It doesn't have to be mean or hateful just firm and signed by both of you or just him but she needs to know that you two are a team in this.
Sometimes the NC works and the other person takes the silent treatment as a hint and moves on with their lives. Others, not so much and they need to be told under no uncertain circumstances is he interested in having any kind of contact with her, EVER.
Of course she's going to say hurtful things to you, that's not news. There is nothing she could say that will hurt you anymore than your husband's betrayal. She has NO power or influence over you, so do not give it to her.
Reading her crap can give you strength and confirm the fact that she's a sociopath.
Therapists are very helpful but they are not gods and sometimes are very wrong in their advice.
I think little Miss Sociopath needs a firm letter/email from you two warning her to stay away or the next call is to your attorney requesting a restraining order.
Enough is Enough, right?
Anon:
I agree with Tryinghard's posting.
You need to send a firm no contact letter, best drawn up by an attorney sent on the attorney's legal letter head.
Avoiding a stalker is the typical and best advised approach, but it does not work 100 percent of the time.
I agree, too, most OWs are on the borderline, narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic spectrum.
I personally find that they are very competitive with the wives once dumped by their married affair partner.
Also, your husband should NOT be responding to her in anyway, at this point.
He should have been ignoring her. The fact that he was not ignoring her emails, was encouraging her.
At this point, Once the NC letter is sent by the attorney, your husband should close his email account and change his number.
If she shows up at the house once a formal No contact letter is sent, call the police, and then you will be able to get a restraining order.
Once she is informed of NC, showing up at the house is considered harrassment.
Thanks everyone for your advice on the OW continuing to contact us. I think I will let sleeping dogs lie for now, but if she tries again I will take your advice and we will send her a no contact letter. I'm hoping she has finally gotten the message. We'll see. Trying hard you are right, there is nothing she can say that can hurt more than I've already been hurt. But every time she contacts him, I have a setback and my anxiety attacks increase. (I still have regular anxiety attacks) Thanks again everyone for the support. Still trying to heal.
SL
I'll recap my story in brief for those who may not know me: I'm a 37 yr old male, married for 12 years, one child. A little more than a year ago, I had a long-distance EA with a woman who I knew before my wife. She was my first love. I have not actually seen her for over 20 years. My wife found out, the usual unpleasantness ensued, but I have honored NC and we have reconciled. My wife has forgiven me.
My problem is that I have not forgiven myself, nor do I think I ever will.
It's not the EA itself which I can't forgive myself for. It was a terrible thing to do to my wife, but I know that there are worse things I could have done and there are worse things SHE could do, for which I could forgive her. I can and have forgiven myself for that lapse in judgement and moment of selfishness.
The thing that I can't forgive myself for is that my feelings for OW have never changed. I still feel that I am in love with her. I know that it's been 20 years since I really knew her, and that the EA itself was more fantasy than reality. That having been said... if I haven't gotten over her by now, after all this time, then how can I expect that I ever will?
I feel sad every day that I have lost her. I feel a terrible guilt for having cut her off cold, as I had to do in order to save my marriage. I am both hopeful and terrified at the idea that I might ever see her again. I am depressed and I feel like I deserve to be depressed. I'm suffering from a heartbreak which I don't think will ever end.
Even so, I don't have second thoughts about the choice I made to stay with my wife; it was the right thing to do for everyone concerned. I still love my wife. If I didn't, I would end my marriage so she could find someone else. But I can't give her all of my heart, and I hate myself because I should be able to. She deserves that much.
When the EA happened, it took me completely by surprise; I never expected that those feelings I had for OW so long ago would resurface with such power. Now that I know, I feel like I can never let my guard down again; I can never forget what almost happened because, for a moment, I followed my heart instead of my head. I know I need counseling for this unrequited love, but what am I going to tell my wife I am going to counseling for? I can't tell her what I am telling you guys. If anyone is even thinking of having an affair, don't. The guilt, shame, and everlasting lingering wonder of "what if" is torture.
Shawn, I just read through your last posts and comments now. I just wanted to thank you for writing your blog. It was through your blog, back in a time a barely remember now, that I started finding things that have really helped me. You mention Healing Hearts. Your blog lead me there, finally. Also Surviving Infidelity. Both have been of tremendous support and guidance for me but also my WW. In addition, your writing still and wit has brought some smiles and chuckles at a time when they were very difficult to find.
I am just over 1 year past DDay 1 and about 8 months past DDay 4. The best I can say right now is I am on the Plain of Lethal Flatness broken to often with deep chasms that I fall in. Occassionally there is a small knoll that rises above. I don't know, yet, what will be the outcome.
I am still trying to bring grief to the POSCOW, in spite of the good advice from you and many others on HH. I want to bring grief without ending up in jail. I don't trust karma, I guess. My WW is suffering. She is with her 3rd IC, has read voraciously and is looking at so many issues from her past, pre-steadychevy. She has a lot of anguish. POS, IMO, has had a dream arrangement for almost 4 years with my WW and no negatives since. A big negative for me is that had my WW gotten help with her issues 30 years ago like I wanted her to I absolutely believe we would not be dealing with any of this now.
But, I digress, as usual. I just wanted to thank you. While your blog was for your own healing it has helped so many people and in particular, me. Thank you for having the courage to go public.
Steadychevy
Also wanted to add, I saw that a poster was suspicious of the smile your husband gave Jaymie outside of the courtroom and I must say, I too am a bit suspicious about it.
Here's why, there was just a chance of running into the former OW at a community function (with my wife) a few years after DDay. I was completely giddy. I was excited at the possibility and found myself fantasizing about what I would say to her, how I would smile and behave, look a her or not look at all....blah, blah, blah.
In essence all the feelings from when we were involved came flooding back. Fortunately she didn't show up. I was sad and disappointed, both because I didn't see her and also because that all those feelings came back.
The one thing that has been missing from our reconciliation experience and all the other counselling we've done is support for the cheater on how to deal with the loss of the "other" relationship. Everything is structured as if to say "it was a horrible mistake, learn from it and throw it away".
From a male perspective, I think Richard knew exactly who Jaymie was when he saw her outside the courtroom and when Jaymie asked the judge that he never go near her again, it jolted him into confessing about the smile as a way of once again throwing her under the bus due to his feelings of rejection and knowing all contact with Jaymie would be final. Plus brownie points from Shawn the wife for him being honest. Two birds one stone.
Just a thought. Thank you for listening.
Mx
I've read both your posts and believe you are sincere.
That said I think you like living in your fantasy alternate reality world.
It's ok. Maybe you're an artist? I feel sorry for you seeing your marriage as a chore or responsibility and not a pleasure. I feel sorry for your wife as I'm sure she must be quite unaware of your fantasy world .
Maybe you do need to talk to a therapist. I doubt your wife would care. She probably feels your disinterest anyway.
Hugs to you. I hope you decide to get therapy.
MX:
When a person marries someone they do not love, it's called settling.
If you really loved your wife you would not have these feelings for your OW.
My husband said the OW was someone he just wanted to pump and dump.
She presented herself as someone who only wanted to cheat on her ugly but wealthy husband, but then pulled the old switcheroo.
One thing to note. Although you obviously do not love your wife, there is also the possibility that you don't love the OW, either.
Unrequited love can mess with your head, and your relationship with the OW is unrequited, now.
Although your letter seems real to me, it reflects a very adolescent pining for someone you can't have.
If you really love the OW, man up and be honest with your wife.
Get your courage together and ask for a divorce.
My guess is you don't leave your wife for this women because somewhere deep inside you realize a real relationship with this women would likely end in disaster.
And, you don't want to get hurt.
Still, it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, MX.
One psychologist told me that he attributes the uptick in affairs to people who are afraid to be alone and thus too eager to settle.
MX Eno: Unlike you, Richard had stepped out of the Fog months earlier. He wanted nothing more than for Jaymie to be out of our lives for good. Jaymie was only a "loss" for about 72 hours...then, for poor Richard it was all about self-loathing and regret.
Took him almost as long to move past the self hate as it did for me to move past the anger.
But, let's talk about you!
DUDE! You need to Man Up! Don't be a selfish asshole. If you love your wife and you want to remain married...get some freaking therapy! You're right. Your wife deserves ALL your heart.
Your old girlfriend is nothing more than a fantasy. How can you be grieving over the loss of something that was just smoke and mirrors?
If you want the fantasy, then do your wife a BIG favor and be honest. Only giving her a piece of you is supremely unfair.
Thanks for reading and sharing.
Sorry if I was too harsh, but Geez!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
for Jaymie to have asked to keep Richard away from her there definitely has been some sort of contact.
I agree with Eno here. Seeing how docile Richard is, its quite likely he must have tried to offer some sort of apology to Jaymie but Jaymie never wanted to initiate any contact with Richard because Richard is a package deal..any contact with him and she gets Mighty Shawn blowing fire down on her.
At least some good came out of all the things Shawn did..taught Jaymie to stay away from Richard.
And ,in any case , we only have Richard's version of what happened.
Not recognised her?
LOL..a lie again.
And WS saying the affair was only a pump and dump one?>>lol another lie.
Mr Eno would only annonymously say he has feelings for his EA partner.Think he would have told his wife that?
WS will tell whatever would save their ass.That they dumped the affair partner means they have chosen the marriage over the affair.its as simple as that.Because its convenient or whatever.They would have chosen the marriage no matter who the wife is.
Would like to hear what Jaymie has to say about the encounter outside the court room.I bet the version would not match Richard's.But then Jaymie is a whore and Richard an erstwhile WS and now reformed and repentant spouse isnt he ?
Anonymous: For the sake of debate, I've considered your hypothesis. Is it possible Richard was sugar coating the encounter...or flat out lying about it?
Sure. I'll concede that.
Richard was full of regret. I could see him wanting to purge some of his guilt by apologizing to Jaymie. He sure wrecked her life. But even if he did approach her knowingly....the end result is the same.
The only issue I would have is that means he would have lied to me once again. I can't know if he lied. My gut says he didn't, but Lord knows, I've misread my gut before.
Your main point seems to be that once a cheater always a cheater...am I wrong? If that is what you believe, good luck with that attitude.
I prefer to believe good people sometimes make horrid mistakes and most of them deserve a second chance.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Anonymous, I sense hostility oozing from your comments. Could it be that you are the OW in your situation. And that the WS dumped you to go back to his wife and now you are bitter and angry. You seem angry that the WS is forgiven but not the OW?
I believe the OW gets what she deserves when the WS ends it. If a person knowingly gets involved with a married person, they deserve whatever pain they suffer from being dumped.
In my situation the OW knew he was married, but suggested a friends with benefits relationship. Why? To entice him into investing in her business, which he did. He purchased over $5000 worth of promotional products from her. Problem is she started to like him and want more, that's when the manipulation and threats of suicide came, when he tried to end things. So do I hate her, do I think she's a whore? Yes, I also think she's a thief. If she'd tried to steal my car she'd be in jail, but if she tries to steal my husband and fails, she's all of a sudden a victim? I don't think so. If you want to play that game, you get what you get. Sometimes you might get the WS, but most times you'll get dumped. They're not really with the OW for love; it's to feel the excitement of someone else being interested in them again.
Do I think my WS was wrong; an asshole, weak and selfish. Yes, but I have a vested interest in my WS. I know the man he was for 29 years before this, and I have compassion and understanding for why he was weak, even though it was completely unacceptable.
As far as Richard goes, I don't believe he knew it was Jaymie. I'm sure he felt compassion for having hurt her, but really do you think he would knowingly approach her in the courthouse, where anyone could have seen them? He could have contacted her at any time prior to then to talk to her if he wanted to. Just my opinion. SL
How come anytime someone debates Shawn, that person automatically gets accused of being an OW? If "anonymous" was an OW, I don't think she'd be calling Jaymie a whore. I wish more OW would post here. I'd love to hear their point of view, delusional or not.
Also thanks for sharing MX Eno. I like learning from waywards as well. I too am a "once a cheater always a cheater" believer. Sorry, but I am. Just from experience and being a witness to people's multi offense.
I think if Richard met someone new and developed a strong "friendship" with them, he would take the opportunity if it was given.
Shawn, that is exactly my point.
SL, its not about what or how much contact Richard had in that corridor..its but obvious he couldnt have had sex with Jaymie there.
As Shawn put it so well its about how much Richard lied or minimized the reason being what we all have heard zillion times "i didnt want to hurt you ".
And that Richard yet felt the need to reach out to Jaymie..compassion or not.In my eyes , doesnt make him compassionate , just weak.What got to me was that he yet had the need to be the good guy in Jaymies books.
Jaymie made a mistake..so did Shawn when she was in her 20's and Shawn was married.
SL, not that it should matter , but no , I am not an OW .However, i do get the place you are coming from.
It appears Jaymie has learnt her lesson and wants to be out of Richard and Shawn's life .
And she doesnt want them in hers either.
All in all , I think its Shawn who got the toughest hand to deal with for the rest of her life.
Jaymie will write it off as an ugly incident , and will move on.Richard, i think , will just be happy trying not to rock the boat and plug along.
Its Shawn, with her intelligence and sensitivity , who will always have to live with a man who left the house for a girl young enough to be his grand daughter.
He did return..but....
Anonymous: I can't/won't buy into the negative thought process of "once a cheater always a cheater". You write that is exactly the point you were trying to make, right? I'm just not that cynical yet. I hope I never will be.
I'm so sorry you have been hurt so deeply that you can't find a bit of faith in second chances.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn
Hi Shawn
Sometimes I have a hard time following some of your reader's posts. I do like hearing from the devil's advocates for many reasons, however some are just not easy to follow. I don't know if it is a literacy or cultural divide. As in example the last Anon's post.
I so wish the post had been a little more cohesive. I think she/he may have been trying to make a valid point, but possibly has limited writing/verbal skills.
To that end I say, "Grand daughter???" Did I miss something again? How old was Jaymie? I thought Richard was early 50's when this happened and Jaymie was mid 20's??? HHHMMM how could Richard be this woman's grandfather?
Well maybe in some areas of the US I guess Richard could be a grand father? Appalachian Mountains, Mississippi swamps but hardly in more astute educated areas of the US.
I also don't get the need to infantilize Jaymie by some of these readers. At 25 I already had two children. I considered myself an adult sexually by the time I was 20. Jaymie was an adult. Yes she made a mistake and I'm certain she rues the day she ever laid eyes on Richard. Guess what, prisons are full of people who made mistakes and regrets. Sometimes you just gotta pay the price for your mistakes and she did. Hope she learned a valuable life lesson from it. She got off lucky by just being harassed by you. Some parts of the country a scorned woman just might have killed her! Ever heard of crimes of passion
As for you, I don't feel sorry for you. I don't feel sorry for myself and I'm in the same boat you are. I don't want or expect sympathy. I'm lucky and so are you. At least we both know what and whom we are dealing with and I can live with that. I feel sorry for those who blindly trust. I feel sorry for those who judge others and have never walked in their shoes.
I truly hope you start a new blog recounting what you did correct to move on from these personal nightmares. And recount the constructive and empowering actions you and Richard made that has gotten YOU on YOUR road to "Happy".
It was Shawn ,who had commented in one of her posts,that Jaymie was young enough to be Richard's grand daughter.
As about limited writing/verbal skills , how about limited comprehension skills?
Nobody is infantalizing Jaymie.If she is old enough to get into a relationship with an old married man , she is old enough to bear the consequences and the fallout .
What you probably "comprehended " as infantalization was just a rationale based on a comparative analysis made on the relative ages of the people involved.
That is , unless you think that a person in his 60's ,well educated professional having adult children and having spent most of his adult life with a spouse as intelligent as Shawn,wouldnt be wiser and more responsible than a 20 something ,uneducated person of questionable values.
Jaymie?.well..from whatever Shawn has wriiten about her , one doesnt expect anything better from her.Not that it excuses whatever she has done but I , for one, would definitely hold Richard to much higher standards and expect him to know better than to blow up his life, mainly because he had much more to lose than Jaymie.
As about Mississippi swamps and the Appalachian are our prejudices showing?
Literacy divide?
My my...are we about to get into a contest..mine is bigger than yours types.
I mean the string of alphabets tagged after our names:)
Cultural divide?
You mean "I come from a place that is culturally placed much higher on the evolutionary ladder than yours"??
Let not what our cheating spouses did affect our self esteem so much that we have to put somebody down by stating that they lack writing/verbal skills or are illiterate or culturally not evolved, just because they have a different opinion from ours.
We're getting a little off topic, which never bothers me. We should be able to discuss anything. BUT... If you're feeling the need to spread around any pent up animosity, maybe we could have a good old OW bashing session instead of sniping at each other. You all know I am shallow like that and always enjoy calling out the bitch whores!
I will add that Richard could have been Jaymie's grandpa. Barely, but not biologically impossible. He was 59. She was 24. He told her he was 54. You can do the math.
To complete the off topic age issue...
I know Jaymie thought it through. They must have discussed it because in one of her emails to him she said something like, "Trust me, Babe." (the babe thing still eats at me!) "I'm Ok with this. I'm good with this. I don't care about the age thing. I don't care that I can't shout about us from the rooftops. You give me the best part of you and that's all that matters."
The BEST part of a married old man was the BEST she could get? Maybe I should have felt a bit more sorry for her after DDay....NAH!
Hope & Hugs and kind words!!
Shawn
LOL Shawn! Yeah, still don't see the Grandpa even after doing the math!
I stand by my comment. She was an adult, he was an adult. No way he took advantage of her. She gave it away so did he.
Anon--sorry your posts just don't make sense to me or the relevancy to Shawn's blog. It's ok, I don't get many things people try to say and maybe it's a function that there are other posters under the moniker of Anonymous on this blog. LOL don't take it so personally!! Deep breath everyone :)
So the anonymous cheerleader for MX Eno, the lovesick cheater, and Jaymie, is claiming to be Psychic.
Can THAT particular anonymous poster spell DELUSIONAL? ;)
MX Enos wrote:
Here's why, there was just a chance of running into the former OW at a community function (with my wife) a few years after DDay. I was completely giddy.
I was excited at the possibility and found myself fantasizing about what I would say to her, how I would smile and behave, look a her or not look at all....blah, blah, blah.
MX Enos:
I believe without a doubt you had the above described fantasy.
At least your post was amusing.
Do you STILL fantasize about all your ex girlfriends and sex partners so vividly?
If so, and IMO, perhaps it's time to start living in the here and now......Unless living in the present moment is a too Zen for you.
One of the other Anonymous posters said:
Let not what our cheating spouses did affect our self esteem so much that we have to put somebody down by stating that they lack writing/verbal skills or are illiterate or culturally not evolved, just because they have a different opinion from ours.
It did not appear to be a put down, in my opinion, ;) . It was simply an opinion.
The Question anonymous, IMO, should be asking is:
What was wrong with Jaymie that she was so eager and willing to spread her legs for, and was interested in marrying, a married man in his 50s with children, close to her own age?
What exactly was the attraction? ...
Perhaps....She digs blended families, and old guys? She wants stepchildren who will hate her. ....She has a thing for aging attorneys in a mid-life crisis, with a need to feel young one last time, by dating someone young? She has daddy issues?
Or, did the OW lack self esteem?
BTW, anonymous, I don't think you are an OW, angry or otherwise.
I know someone who had a child at 17. If that child had become a parent at the age of 18, then when that baby turned 24, the grandparent would have been 59.
There... I just had to get that out of the way. ;-)
Your story had a good ending, Shawn. You've been a lifeline for me through the toughest time of my life so far. Thank you, a thousand times.
LOL Kate M!! I always hated word problems in math. Now if the 18 year old person were on a train going....:). You guys are great!
BS --you're always so well spoken and make great points.
Shawn, I know I'm all over the place today, and here I am just reading a few months of your posts. Thanks again for sharing and congrats on finishing. Still need to read your very last post, but it would be a shame if you ended here. For me, the comments after your post are as helpful and interesting as your blog topic. I think us readers and posters thrive on the conversations too. And you are so good with mediating them, truly. So don't go away! xoxox!
Also, once again I couldn't help but LOL at the "darling baby whore bag" comment. Where do you get this stuff. :)
MX Eno: I hate to tell you this but you really never stopped cheating on your wife. You are still being unfaithful to her. My theory on cheating has always been, the wayward has an issue within themselves, and then either finds or seeks out an opportunity for an A. Some people drink, some shop, some do drugs, and some have A's. If your marriage is not good right now chances are it's because you aren't focused on it. Tell your wife what's going on, and run to a therapist please!
I'm sure she'd be happy to go to MC rather than become the victim of an A. Because if you don't figure it out, the opportunity with your old GF will pop up again or someone else will. But don't hurt your wife (more) in the process of figuring it out through cheating. If you hear nothing else, hear this: If my H had come to me before he cheated and said, I'm having some issues, and there's this woman and I'm starting to have feelings for her, I would have RUN to counseling with him. Especially knowing what I know now, how much it hurts, I would have gladly taking the time and money to work on what we know now the issue to be, rather than experience the pain and fallout of finding out he cheated.
Love is a feeling that changes. So you can't base commitment on that. Because your wife is not perfect. You are not perfect. Flawed humans let each other down. But you love and stay committed regardless because you promised to when you made your wedding vows. And then both do the work to be happy individually and together.
I read your posts and I'm scared for you, your wife, and who ends up being the OW if you don't get help. GO GET HELP!
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