After an affair, your life doesn't belong to you anymore. For over a year, I couldn't control my own thoughts.
The turmoil in my head was viciously repetitive but savagely random. With this blog, I began to exorcise the demons holding my head hostage.

Monday, June 17, 2013

Demanding Attention

Geek boy Kevin was done with me, but still he sent this:
Sigh...Shawn, I worry about you. I said I wouldn't respond, but after this popped up I felt I had to say something out of concern for your mental health. If you push forward with your undying need for attention, then so be it.
So thoughtful!  Worried about me!  I had to pause and soak that in while I contemplated the last line...WAS I seeking attention??  Until now, I thought I was seeking information.  My Crazy Town visitation was all about an expedition for clarification.  I needed to know what really happened between Richard and Jaymie.  I needed the emails!  All of them!  Not just the PG rated ones...I wanted the deep, down dirty ones, too!  I couldn't begin to heal without full disclosure...Right??

However, I had to consider, maybe Geek Boy Kevin had a point.

I was using the same type of thinking and rationalizing that Richard used when he was cheating.  He justified his behavior just as I was justifying mine.  He thought he deserved a mistress.  Lots of hard working, successful men had a little something on the side.  He wouldn't be hurting anyone.  What could happen if he shared some time with a 24 year old co-ed with daddy issues?  Who could care?  
Self serving much??

My thinking was nearly as selfish.  I deserved to know everything about Richard's time with Jaymie.  Jaymie owed me the emails!  I was completely justified in taking down a few innocents in my pursuit of the truth.  If anyone was to blame for the additional collateral damage, it was Jaymie.  If she would just talk to me, send me the rest of the emails, answer the hundreds of tormenting questions eating away at my cerebellum, I'd relent.  She and those close to her could go along their merry little ways without fear of hearing from me ever again.  

Crap... Geek Boy Kevin kind of hit a nerve.  For a moment there, I had more than a little self doubt about my true intentions.  In my cloudy mind I was screaming, "You will look at me!  You will see what you've done!" I needed to show her how much she fucked up my life.  I demanded her attention to be certain that she felt the devastation she hath wrought, let her know her choices had some horrendous consequences.  Maybe it was more about sharing my pain than searching for answers...a whole lot more.

Today I can tell you in no uncertain terms it was all of the above....and none of it at the same time.  
It doesn't matter WHY I ventured all around Crazy Town the first year after DDay.  For the sake of my recovery and to help those of you still trying to find a place to begin to heal, the only thing that I need to share in BIG letters is:  STAY AWAY FROM THE AFFAIR PARTNER!  You can not find a path back to the Road to Happy anywhere near her sorry ass!

I punished Richard in the same way I lashed out at Jaymie.  I reached out, far and wide and up close and personal to those we loved sharing all our drama and anguish just to make Richard suffer as I was suffering.  Used people I care about in a totally selfish way to strike at Richard's heart, cut him to the quick.  That, my friends, is no better than Richard's narcissistic behavior during the affair.  It took me a long damn time to admit that to myself.
I can't take any of it back, but I sure as hell hope I can save a few of you from making the same grievous errors.  

My next victim was Geek Boy Kevin's dad.  Absurd, right?  I know that now, and I willingly accept any and all comments chastising me for my lack of self control.  I called the poor man and let him know his son was dating a moronic, gullible dip stick with no moral compass.  I advised him to talk some sense into his boy.  He actually said to me, "I thought she was no good."  
Whoo Hoo!  Additional affirmation (rationalization) that I was doing the right thing!  

I had to let Geek Boy Kevin know that his father was concerned.  I sent this:
I know you don't want to hear anymore about Jaymie.  You can't see the forest for the trees, but your dad can.
Spoke with him.  For a man that you said has little to no concern for you, he certainly seemed to care a great deal about your relationship with someone like her.  
The more people that know about the REAL Jaymie, the harder it will be for her to ever destroy another family.
That works for me.

I sent Kevin and Jaymie texts, emails and left voice mails at least a couple of times each and every week.  I was staying for much longer periods of time in Crazy Town and until I accomplished my goal, whatever in the hell that actually was, I would keep pushing the Crazy Envelope down their throats.  
I have been dreading telling you all what I did next.  It is so beyond Crazy Town.  I was beginning to live exclusively in Vindictive Village and it was a very ugly place.  My attention seeking took on a more threatening tone.  It was kind of like...if I don't get the emails, then I'm gonna --  insert idle threat here.   
There was definitely something to Geek Boy Kevin's attention seeking theory.  
I was very tired of being ignored.  
As I neared the edge of permanent residence in Vindictive Village, I sent this to Geek Boy Kevin:
Let her know I'm not a patient woman, but I have nothing but time. Time for church, time for meeting lots of new friends of friends and time to share my story with as many people as possible.  I'd rather talk to her, but I'm OK with bringing lots of newbies into the loop if that is the way she wants to go.
Must say that Richard is not happy with my idea, but that makes it even better.
Looking forward to a phone call or church, whichever comes first.
Sorry you have to be the messenger boy.
If that is unclear, let me elaborate...I was planning on going to Jaymie's family church. 
Yep...that's right.  If I didn't hear from Jaymie soon, I was gonna put on my Sunday best and go to services at the Baptist Church in Lemon Grove.  


Anonymous said...

Oh, Shawn I really needed this today. I, too, have been contemplating contacting the OW's family. I have stalked her on facebook for months and finally found her mother's address...road by the house just this morning. Of course I was just going to send an anonymous letter saying what a whore her daughter was for being my husband's "cheap prostitute" (what my H called her) for several years.
I know in my heart it is wrong but she has not suffered at all from what she has done...My H is convinced that after he ended it with her that she left her last begging emails up for her husband to hurt her H and my family. Plus my H is the 3rd person in his workplace that she has pursued.
Don't get me wrong my H is totally to blame for what happened but she is not blameless, either. She is quite the profession from what I hear from the other female employees at my H's company.
I guess I should let KARMA deal with her instead of lowering myself to her level!
Thanks for helping me to make sense of this crazy roller-coaster ride!

TryingHard said...

I hope you don't mind that I do get a little tickled at this :/ The boyfriend's father?? That's golden!!! Congratulations to you for being a great life teacher to Jaymie. Listen up Jaymee--DON'T FUCK WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES!!!! It may be crazy or whatever, but you certainly made your point. Jaymie was lucky to learn a great life lesson with no blood shed! Maybe when she gets married she will be on the look out for her husband to have an affair? Maybe before she decides to do it again she will remember the hell you invoked in her and everyone else's life?

I just wonder had you not done all this "crazy" would be regretting it today?

I know, I know the OW needs to be far away in order to heal and there is no room for her in the healing process but, maybe in some crazy way there is if only as the "whipping boy" if only as a much needed outlet for you? All that fear, hatred, anger, etc has to go somewhere. So I'll ask again, would it have eaten away at you down the road had you NOT done all this "crazy town" stuff? I also think Richard got the message that he did hurt you, he did not deserve a mistress, none of this was ok.

Short of maiming her, I think your actions were normal and deserved by both Richard and Jaymee.

You Rock!

shawn thewife said...

Anonymous: I so glad you are smarter than me!! Let the Karma bus run her down! Any energy wasted on OW is just one more thing she takes from you. SCREW THAT! Sure all OWs hold some of the blame, but the only person that truly MUST answer to us, the betrayed, is our cheating spouses. Period.
If I have helped you make any sense of the coaster from hell, I'm really happy to hear it. For me, this is just paying it forward. I would not be married today without the help of betrayed spouses that showed me the way to my Road to Happy.
Thanks so much for commenting.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

TryingHard: I don't think I would have regretted staying out of Crazy Town. I wish I had never been there. Focusing on Jaymie made my recovery so much harder. Bouncing back from infidelity is hard enough. Why choose to make it even harder?

Richard knows how badly he hurt me. He knows he almost lost it all. He has worked very hard to earn his way back into my heart.

My actions weren't normal. They were nutso.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

Anonymous said...

Hi Shawn, thank you so much for your posts. They are invaluable. I have lived with anger for so long. I can only describe as a hot coal sitting on my heart. I have been in IC for a long time but am still emotionally bankrupt with anger and sadness as the two deposits.

I just wanted to share with you and your readers a book that has helped me: "when your lover is a liar".

I also just finished reading an article in Scientic American Mind " Ready for Anything", about being resilient in times of great personal stress.

Your blog is so helpful!

Anonymous said...

I don't think ANYONE's actions are normal can they be? It's not a normal situation by any means. As the betrayed spouse your world as you know it has been turned completely upside down and nothing makes sense anymore. I agree that maybe continued and prolonged contact with the OW should be avoided...but sometimes a confrontation ( or 2 ) is necessary. I contacted the OW by phone the night I discovered the affair. I made my husband give me her number and I told her EXACTLY what I thought of her, demanded that she tell me everything, then threatened her to stay away from my husband or risk my wrath. Because his story and hers had some inconsistencies and he kept denying a physical affair, I pursued her on FB until I finally got the truth out of her...which I then used to force my husband to finally admit to the entire truth. Yeah, it's ridiculous that I had to get the whole story from that skank as opposed to hearing it from my husband who was the one who actually OWED me honesty. But I guess she was tired of me 'bothering' her so it was a way to get me to leave her alone. I'm not sorry at all for contacting her. I did rant and rave a few times and tell her what a whore she was, among other things, but I don't regret any of that either. She WAS, and IS, still a whore. She cheated on her husband to be with a married man - nasty whory skank doesn't even BEGIN to adequately describe that bitch. So as much as I know you have a good point about avoiding Crazy Town, I don't regret my detour through it. ;-)

Even better, her husband divorced her skanky ass and got custody of her kids, so she's at least having to deal with SOME of the consequences of being a giant whore. And I am GLAD!!!

Ugh...that probably makes me sound vindictive and evil...but I'm being honest!

shawn thewife said...

Anonymous: I'm grateful my blog is helpful to you. We are all victims of the same crime and we are stronger together.
Thank you for sharing the book & article that helped you. We can all learn a little from each other so please stick around!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Trishinreallife: Vindictive?? Evil?? Ain't nobody here that can look down on you for that!! LOL!
I love hearing about OWs that get run over by the Karma bus!! brings me great joy!!
Now THAT's evil!! LOL!
Wadda ya gonna do? Lord knows I wish I was a kinder, gentler betrayed spouse, but as long as I only IMAGINE Jaymie getting hit by that bus, I figure I probably won't get struck by lightening any time soon.
Hope you're still walking your Road to Happy.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

Anonymous said...

Shawn, I am trying SO hard not to contact the bitch, but it's hard... especially because I know for a fact that she put me dow and sneered at me, looking down her nose at me as if it was ME who was the pathetic loser and not HER and that ASSHAT of my partner.

I won't though. Partly because I want to heal. But I do have another reason too:

My partner wanted to do something to get revenge on her. Yes, HIM. I told him that he was to stay the hell away from her and that he could little afford to take the moral high ground - he has acted like more of a whore than she has, and that is saying something.

Then I told him something else which I am convinced is true: if neither of us bother to contact her and we both refuse to have anything to do with her if she contacts us then that will really get up her arrogant little nose. Because that makes her IRRELEVANT, something I'm sure will driver her nuts. If I ever meet her or she ever calls me, I have my response worked out:

"I have nothing to say to you, and zero interest in anything you might have to say to me. You are irrelevant," then hang up/walk away as the situation requires.

I only hope I have the self control to do it and not scratch her eyes out lol

BS said...

I love that you told geek boy Kevins, daddy.

I still think that all this information about his girlfriend's background will ruin any chance of a long term future for Jaime with Kevin.

He may be blase about it now, but it will soon start to raise doubts in his mind.

IMO, you did him a favor. He deserves to know.

Faith said...


You are wonderful. Thank you for your blog, your posts in Healing Hearts, just for being YOU.

The devastation of infidelity is so heart wrenching and you are such a blessing to share your story.

It makes me feel "normal" for being so crazy.

Karma bus - perhaps we should start a business...

Please keep up the great work.

Thanks again.

silly women said...

Wow I just found your blog not to long ride to crazyville is coming full circle. Thank you for making me feel NORMAL! this is NORMAL! The bad thing is the WHORE lives less then a mile from my house, her daughter goes to school with my niece. They are in high school my neice knows because my daughter told neice knows the family well and she wants to tell them all. However my craziness has not allowed that yet.

silly women said...

THANK YOU for all your insite....I thought I was the only one who has gone to crazyville! I just found your blog and it has helped me so much! The whore lives less then a mile from my home, I have seen her driving around HATE THAT! ON DDay I smacked the crap out of him in front of a harley dealership.....almost ran him over as he was trying to not let me leave. I went totaly crazy....I visit crazy town often.

Erica said...

I only reached out the the OW directly once - sent her our family's Christmas card a little less than a year after DDay and wrote a little message about her having a personality disorder and being a misogynist. I felt both glad & a bit embarrassed after I sent it but the thing I *REALLY* wanted to do and still somewhat regret NOT doing is contacting every adoption agency in her city and telling them what a lowlife this woman is and that her household isn't fit for bringing a child into. I didn't do that, and low & behold she & her husband adopted a baby about a year after DDay. (So much of my husband's A had to do with babies -- we were expecting twins & my husband was freaking out. The OW was having fertility issues - like I did - and I think deep down wanted my H to get her pregnant. I found out about the A 5 days before having our twins - wonderful timing indeed.) I know I shouldn't think about her or care one iota about this, but it kills me to think she might have some happiness with a child when the first year or so with my twins was horrendous - I was a barely functional zombie not just due to lack of sleep but mostly the horror that my H could do something so cruel at such an important time in our lives. This OW is truly a bunny boiler type and deserves no happiness. Most days I don't think about her but some days, like today, it's hard not to and I wish I hadn't taken the 'high road' by not calling adoption agencies. Sigh.

Anonymous said...

I can only imagine where this is going! All of us can relate. I had my moments of making idle threats....2 or 3 to be exact...which translates to 2 or 3 days where I handled the absolute worst time of my life with less than pure grace, which was how I would characterize the other days. I always felt bad afterwards, almost like a rage hangover, but then I reminded myself that we are entitled to a few days in Crazy Town considering our lying, cheating spouses spent, in my case, a year and a half there! My moments in Crazy Town consisted of the kind you talked about...."If you don't do this, then 'insert idle threat here...'" stuff. Namely, I called once, in a rage upon discovery of yet more lies, and told her that if she didn't let me know that she actually got our letter ending things then I would send it to everyone in the department where she was a graduate student. She never responded. My husband implied that she was scared to. I would use the term coward. Another moment involved sharing a link with her on STDs, almost laughing at the fact that my husband had brought HPV into our lives nearly 20 years before when we were dating and on a break....hoping that she too would now have to be burdened with the same, but worried that the slut may actually have given something to us as well. last moment of rage was now a year ago. I was driving my children to school and my oldet son began crying about the time we were apart. The 2-year old then also got worked up and started screaming. Somewhere around 30 minutes into our morning commute from hell I just lost it, pulled the car over, and told the boys I was putting myself in time out while I drafted a nasty text to her telling her what an emotional moron she was. It felt better for a split second, and I do feel like she is, but I have come to realize that it doesn't matter WHAT she is (dumb, slack-jawed, mousy-haired, selfish kid)...she is of no concern or consequence to us any longer. Good thing is that my husband knew of all of these moments. I shared each and everyone with him. He has been supportive. When I need to vent he says I can do so with him...we talk everynight during "couch time". We learned a valuable insight from MC not to have such discussions in our bedroom, and I do believe it helps with physical intimacy to keep that space free of conflict. Sometimes though I need to write it down. I don't send them anymore, but when I draft them my husband and I refer to them as my "Lincoln Letters" after learning that Abraham Lincoln apparently did the same thing as a way to vent his frustrations while still being an hnorable man and diplomat in public. Just my thoughts on the matter of demanding attention. Take home message....I understand the need to be acknowledged early on. Beyond that, who the fuck cares whether you get the attention of some twit that happened to interesect your path for a brief moment in time.

ME said...

Not to shrink you after the fact, but crap give yourself a break. You were wounded in such an UNFAIR way. You are entitled to be a little nuts! Who the heck knows what is the right way to act after this happens. Ya know Shirley Glass says the biggest indicator if a marriage will survive or not is how the betrayer reacts when the betrayed starts going crazy. So Shawn, Richard is in this for the loooooong haul! Great for you guys.

UNFAIR THOUGH: That is the biggest beef I had with my H's A. Like you, people envied what my H and I had. His friends, my friends, people we just met. His friends LOVE me. My friends LOVE him. We had everything! We had FUN together, could talk for hours. Two beautiful kids. Very loving supportive parents. Tons of friends. Materialistically, but just to say, we had no outside pressures. Great jobs. Amazing house. Nice cars. Plenty of money. Vacations a few times per year. We spent LOTS of time together. Had great sex, often. We were great partners, no nagging of house work or any of that crap. Minimal fights, but just everyday crap, nothing. I had NO issues with him or our life together. He never told me he was unhappy. In fact, the morning he slept with her, he told me, I love you so much, honey, like in a very sincere tender way.

I'm thinking from what I've read, Shawn this was you. And from one of your first posts, you caught him on the phone with her, and he lied and said he was talking to your son. You simply believed him because you never in 30 years had a reason to ever think he'd do this to you. Same for me. I found a text from him to her: I should be kissing your cheek right now. She responded, I wish you were holding me! I never even said, did you sleep with her? I simply believed it was an EA, which was immense pain as well, but after a few weeks and the additional stuff that came out, I finally got him to admit it.

So that was my long-winded way of saying, you were so incredibly blind sided that you didn't no what to do, say, not do, not say, you simply went on auto pilot. That is what I did, although mine was to hole up and basically do nothing, polar oppposite. And I've seen everything in between. This is because we are humans who are all different and react differently.

Also, GBK was so freaking condescending when he said what he said. Because he didn't get it, didn't understand where you were coming from. NO ONE CAN UNLESS IT HAPPENS TO YOU. It's like if you mother is alive and well and your best friend's mother dies. You see her pain and think you would know how that feels, but YOU DON'T BECAUSE YOU CAN'T! This is marital betrayal. You create a partnership with someone, and you give them your heart, soul and body. And they give theirs to you. And then they give it to someone else. It's a complete an utter violation. Not just of trust, that is just the surface!

So, were you in Crazy Town? Um, yeah. Were you entitled to be there? Um, yeah! So like Jaymie is supposed to be able to go, oh, tee hee, sorry! And walk away and just be happy? And you have to live a completely different life forever. That is how I feel. She flipped my life and said ooops! then just turned on her heel and walked away.

That said, I'm in a much better place today. Long story short, we managed to work through it with ups and downs but more ups than downs and we are better. So for those of you who just started this rollercoaster ride, buckle up, hang on, but don't get off too soon. Your marriage can heal, you can heal and things can be better.

Much love to you all!

Anonymous said...

Hi Shawn...

I have been following your blog for a while now, and your honesty and bawdy sense of humor have been a salve for my post d-day wounded heart. I love that you are sharing your perspective of what NOT to do in the wake of affair discovery, and I applaud your advice to stay away from the OW.

That being said, riddle me this...

What does one do with the insatiable itch?? The need for some kind of justice for her? It is the reason that 2 years out, I am still in individual counseling and trying to come to terms with the fact that it is not my job to make sure she "gets" what she deserves.

This was a woman who pretended to be my friend. A co-worker of my husband's with whom I exchanged xmas cards and went to lunch with. Unbeknownst to me, she actively pursued my husband for over NINE years because she wanted to MARRY him!! And after their first sexual encounter when they were traveling together on a business trip, that is when she saw her window of opportunity open wide. She threatened to tell me and their employer if he didn't continue the affair. She told him he was her knight in shining armor and made herself available to him for quickies and BJs whenever possible. Hmmm, let's see. Get your hooks into the man in the corner office that is a nice guy, good husband and father, and makes twice as much as your husband. Pretty good plan for her, if you ask me. My husband blames himself (as do I) for what happened. For initially being flattered, then ultimately being intimidated by her threats and the unstable intensity of her personality. "Drama queen" doesn't even begin to describe her.

Oh, and she was married too... married to her second husband that she managed to steal from his wife and baby girl by getting knocked-up during their workplace affair (while she was married to her 1st husband with whom she had a young child). Sorry, I know that it sounds like a fucking soap opera, and I guess it kind of is.

Two years down the road and I have a husband who is EXTREMELY remorseful, cannot stand the thought or mention of her, and cut her off swiftly and completely as soon as I found the incriminating texts. He is the most loving, contrite, affectionate and happy-to-still-have-his-family man you have ever seen. I insisted he tell our adult children, and he has had to endure their anger and disappointment, and has had to earn his way back into their lives, as well as mine.

But HER...she goes on with her life, business as usual. As to not complicate my family's life, I decided not to tell her husband or her now, grown children. Not worth the drama for me and my family, plus my husband has said that she is one crazy bitch when pissed off, which is one of the reasons he never rocked the boat and broke it off with her. He was always afraid of her anger.

So trust me Shawn, there are days when I literally pray for karma to find her. It feels so unfair that someone could cause such heartbreak and turmoil in my life, and here I sit...turning the other cheek. I know it is the best path, the smart choice, but I struggle with thoughts of revenge EVERY DAY. Thank god for you and for blogs like yours, and for the faithful women that are just trying to do the right thing for their marriage and their families. I am sorry to be here, but so grateful that we have each other to lean on.

Stephanie C.

shawn thewife said...

lovefromitaly; I hope she never calls and you never run into the OWs pathetic, sorry ass but if you do...OMG! The response you have for her is PERFECT!
Seriously! I want to embroider that on a pillow!
THE OW IS IRRELEVANT! Outstanding, Girl!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Silly Women: I'm glad you found us. I hate that you needed to find us. You didn't mention when you suffered your DDay and I'm not sure what you mean by "full circle". That kind of implies you're out of the mess, but I'm thinking you may be right in the middle of it?? Perhaps another DDay or trickle truth??
Until I understand more of your betrayal story, I'll just share patient with yourself. Don't feel like you have to make any BIG moves too soon. It's just too damn much to try and process pain this big in a short time. This is a freakin' Marathon of ups, downs and spinning arounds! IC and MC make the ride smoother, but not much quicker. It's a long haul and we will be here to help you through the maze.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

(((((Erica))))) You're gonna have shitty days like that, but giving in to the over-whelming urge to squash the OWs happiness and rattle her chains will bring you more bad days. It might feel AWESOME for a minute, maybe even a day, but it's wasted effort. Worse case scenario, you drag her sorry, loser-self back into your life!! UGH!
We talk about the Karma bus here frequently. She'll get hers eventually. We may never see it, but it's gonna happen.
But...bottom a rat's ass about her in anyway gives her power! Like lovefromitaly said...she is irrelevant!!
I know...I'm preaching to the choir. We all have bad days. Even though I write all about letting the bitch whore go, once in a while I still picture Jaymie standing naked in front of the congregation at her church, begging God's forgiveness for her selfish sinning ways!! Then, lightening strikes her, fries her skinny ass and big, black crows fly in, pick out her entrails and carry them off!! LOL! It's that wicked fantasy or some other frightful means of Jaymie suffering intensely!
Whew! I'm done now! Back to leaving Jaymie in her proper spot....irrelevant again!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Hey, ME! So glad you commented. You are a wonderful example of a success story. Healing can and does happen. You're also right on when you say unless you are a betrayed spouse, you just can't understand the level of pain.
Another reason why I am so grateful to all of my readers for their continued support as I move forward on my Road to Happy!
Thanks for walking with me!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Welcome Stephanie: I'm glad you asked that very important question:
What does one do with the insatiable itch?? The need for some kind of justice for her?

It took me a year and a restraining order to Let the Bitch Whore go. It took nearly another year for me to realize, giving her anymore of me, my mind, my life, my energy gave her immense power. Jaymie was sucking the life outta me! Why did I continually think of ways I could ruin her? Why in the hell was I wasting a single freakin' brain cell on the stupid wench?? What worked for me, what finally got me to a place where Jaymie rarely entered my train of thought was kind of an epiphany! I won! She was never in my league! I don't need to punish her. She was NEVER worth my time! There was no way I would let her take one more thing from me and that included another second of my life! I'm better, I'm stronger, I'm still married. She can go to hell but I don't care to watch. I'm living my life in spite of her.

Does that make any sense at all???

Enjoy what you have now. A husband that is so, so sorry and treats you with respect. Wallow in the fact that you won. You're better!
Thanks for reading and checking in!!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

Anonymous said...

Six months after DDay, the BS came fishing for a response from me (former & remoseful OW) and I never understood why because like shawn said, "she won." And that is how I felt...THEY WON, THEY WON EACH OTHER! So go focus on your winnings & leave me the eff alone. Trust me, I felt horrible for what I did to the BS, it wasn't until she came fishing that I started to not feel sorry for what I did. TO THE BETRAYED SPOUSES OUT THERE, some OW do actually have a conscience & a heart & feel horrible after DDay. Trust me, if you want to get back at the OW, don't do a thing. She will beat herself up on her own. It's once your start f*cking with the OW then feels justified...the ow thinks, no wonder he cheated on his bat shit wife. So if you want to get back at OW, do nothing. Make sense?

shawn thewife said...

Anonymous OW: First, thanks for commenting. I find it very brave for an affair partner to post here in a den of betrayed spouses. Brave and appreciated.

While I agree with the suggestion that the betrayed should always treat the OW as irrelevant, I beg to differ with your reasoning as to why.
The OW must be left out of the recovery process to enable the betrayed to focus on what is important...the cheating spouse. I gotta say, what the OW thinks about the betrayed partner is as insignificant as fish pee in the ocean.
Why in the world would it matter to me what Jaymie thought about me? If she thought about me at all she would not have slept with my husband. Do I think she felt some remorse after DDay? Yeah. Do I think 'feeling' bad makes up for her heinous behavior? Hell to the NO! But, what is the price?
The facts are...the OW will NEVER know the depth of our pain. There is nothing we can do to hurt her the way they hurt us. Nothing. So why waste the effort when it only adds to our agony?
Make sense?

Again...thanks for commenting. All views are welcome here because every outlook has a chance to be a catalyst to healing.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

silly women said...

Hi Shawn.... I feel some days I have come full circle others uhhhhh I want to kill both of them. How it all happened was she was a friend of his family's. She actually had been to my house a few times. He worked on her car for her 2 times. Went to a couple of our nieces basketball games. Started seeing her number all over my phone bill questioned him he said oh her car is acting up again....(brand new f150) I said well tell her to take it to the dealer not your problem! I didn't think anything of her seems how for one I am 40 he's 46 & she's 49 looks older then that short spiky hair gray at that. Has no boobs no ass...... all things he says that he likes! I am shapley & have long beautiful blonde hair. I grabbed his phone one night went through it. I felt something wasn't right.....very flirtatious text between them then a wow! A pic of his penis to her! WTH I freaked called her said what id going on....she said nothing it was a joke!!! I said bullshit & him & I had a big blowout fight. He swore it was nothing I never belived him I know you don't send pictures of you penis as a joke! I had no where to go no one to turn to.....totally freaked out. Can't understand why a man who begged me to come back after a 2 year split up would do this to our family! We've been together 20 years split up for 2 then decided to try again..... so here we are 3 years into our 2nd chance & he is blowing it!she came to my house to talk......said she needed to reassure me there is nothing between she didn't want me to tell her husband! Poor fool is a firefighter and is never home!
We just bought a house we have 3 kids together & when we gave it a second chance I said I want to grow old together..... watch our children become parents & enjoy our grandchildren! (None yet thank the lord as I can't have them thinking grama is crazy!) How I found out was one day I grabbed his phone again & read their Facebook messages......oh it was bad! I freaked out was supposed to be meeting him to get his Harley fixed.....I went told him what I know & wanted details..... he refused to give them to me...I smacked the crap out of him told people looking at me he is a cheating bastard he tried to not let me leave I almost ran him over but he moved! Next I got her on the phone she denied everything! His dad happened to be at our house when I got him asked me what was wrong......bad choice on his part he knows all now! We had all these hopes & dreams.....I am working full time go to school at night trying to get my degree in nursing. He is working on opening his own businesses with his friend. We have 2 kids in college 1 in middle school. & a nice life at least I thought so..... guess I was wrong! Not sure when this crazziness goes away
After intense freak outs he has admitted to it but won't say why. I look at him & want to kill him. How can he do this to our family? Aren't we worth more then some whore? I have lost a good friend in the process his sister & I were wonderful friends.....until I found out she knew! Stupid bitch! How could she come over my house & attend family functions acting like my friend all along allowing her whore friend to fuck us all up! Yes he did this too.....however she knew what she was doing she knew us & knew our kids acting like a friend all along too bad she has no clue who she messed with. I will have my revenge ok that's my story!

I took pictures of all the messages I still have them and I will give them to her husband!

shawn thewife said...

Silly Women: Oh, please say you've read my blog! Please say you understand that focusing on the OW is gonna bring you nothing but a whole new world of hurt! No one gets the anger and the intense need for revenge better than me. No one gets how much more all that rage hurt me than her.
Bring it back home. Take it to your WH. That's where the blame lies. That's who hurt you.
If you can...get to MC with WH and PLEASE consider IC for yourself. There are much healthier ways to deal with your anger regardless of whether or not you hope to reconcile. You can never hurt the OW the way she hurt you. You just can't. So don't waste precious energy trying.
We will be here for you, but check out the Healing Heart message boards, too. The link is at the bottom of my blog under: Find compassion Here.
Please let the OW go. She is not worth another single second of your life.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

silly women said...

Thank you Shawn! Yes I know she is not worth my time & he receives the blunt of my anger which he should! Yes I am focusing on me.....I work out I have for once put myself & my needs first! He gets nothing from me that I refuse to give! I have just started IC because I am so angry. He asked to go to MC I said maybe...... not sure I want to save this. I love him he is all I know since I was 15! But I just can't think about all the crap he put me through! Oh the messages I read them over & over again in my mind & it kills me! One message pissed me off beyond belief they were talking crap about me! Well she was & he allowed her to! How dare either of them talk about me! & him allow her to bash me! WTF! He kissed me this morning before he left to fish and out of my mouth flew hate......" why are you kissing me is that whore going with you?" I said it in front of my two older kids.... they just glared at him as he said "no honey I love you just wanted a kiss" so today isn't a good day. I text him after he left advised him of my very bad day.... told him to stay late cuz I need a few glasses of wine to calm myself. He text back "I am sorry". I will do my best to keep my focus on myself & my anger towards him. What I hate most about her is she comes off as this perfect wife with a perfect mine is a mess! It's abouslty maddening! Thank you Shawn I will look for support through the groups you suggested. Its better then becoming the next story on snapped! Lol (((hugs)))

Anonymous said...

I love how you've handled everything, dear, really! I love it. I think you are doing just great. Everyone involved deserves everything and a hell of a lot more than what you have dished out. Good for you. Good! Love it. Plus you make me laugh, and that's hard when dealing with infidelity. the g.

BS said...

To the anonymous OW.

Ah, women like you just make me laugh. You lost because the husband never saw you as anything but a distraction, and yes of course he thought you were a whore.

He was in heaven thinking an OW is cheaper than paying a prostitute for regular sex.

To Silly women: I agree with Shawn that you shouldn't focus on the OW much.

Still, I do think you should meet with the husband to show him your proof.

One of the things I was really angry about were the people who knew of the affair yet kept it hidden from me.

This OW's husband has a right to know. She could cuckold him causing him to unwittingly raise children that are not biologically his, and she could give him a deadly or incurable STD.

In the past I always kept out of other people's affairs, but since cheating flourishes in secrecy and the knowledge that most everyone will keep it from the faithful spouse, I have change my thoughts.

Now, when I hear gossip of an affair, I immediately tell the faithful spouse of the gossip. If I have proof I bring it.

Bring a friend with you, or have a friend listen in on your conversation with the faithful spouse, but please tell him.

The OW in my case cleverly initially denied the affair, but I had proof.

Also, IMO, it will help you let go of needing to exact revenge on the OW.

Anonymous said...

Ok. I think we should cut the Anonymous OW poster some slack....I think she may be right when she says the best we can do is leave them alone and not go fishing for response..they aren't worthy of the attention from us (no offense anonymous OW, it's just that you were never as special as you thought you were, and I'm sure have had to come to terms with that now, just like us in some ways). To all of us betrayed out there that feel the need to make her pay; someone said that "the best revenge is a life well lived..." That's probably true. Beyond that, the OW doesn't deserve any clarity on what happened after a committment to reconcile, no progress report, no satisfaction of hearing from you and believing that you both still spend too much time thinking about her, which is not the case and just reinforces the obvious character deficit of an overly-inflated sense of importance which I believe many OW must suffer with to get involved in someone's marriage in the first place. We should do them a favor..don't feed the delusion! BTW, anonymous former, remorseful OW, I'd be interested to know why you felt less remorseful after the BS had reached out to you? Not compassionate? Able to recognize her as a fellow human/woman with feelings? Did you never respond? My OW never did either, to this day I still feel like she was a complete coward and emotional moron to lack the decency to respond at least once...maybe not to an angry letter, email, or phone call, but at least to the first very gracious and heart-felt letter I wrote on DDay to ask that she back off while we tried to sort out what was happening to our family. She neither responded, or honored my request. I realize my husband didn't either....but grow a spine someone! Could she just not help herself? My husband has said that the sex was not super...was already fizzling out before I found out. Oh well...I no longer need her to be a decent person...I simply don't care if she is or isn't....As my husband says, she is irrelevant. Back in the early days after discovery though, some days were so surreal that I began to question my sanity and if she even existed at all. In the end, she stooped to the level my husband was at (or she dwells there permanently), which was broken, selfish, and deplorable...not at all the man any of us that knew him would recognize or even like. I find some satisfaction in telling myself that he was only attracted to her at his absolute worst, and she to him at his worst. I think he used her to make himself feel better....setting the bar as low as it could go. I think that doesn't say much about the relationship or the individual. It totally invalidates the feelings that were confused for anything real, and it simply is as pathetic as it gets. Maybe she was acting out of character too, I'll just never know. PS....I am at a stage in all of this that I almost feel sorry for the OW, I now laugh at quite a few things other than her ugly pictures, including the following ironies....she is a student that won an "ethics bowl debate" at a conference that she fucked my husband at later that day (I was at home pregnant and making our son's halloween costume, to go trick-or-treating without him) She also publishes scholarly works on "sexuality" I can only imagine what kind of perspective her personal life brings to this work! I have fun titling these articles when I feel like being nasty. Last, and best of all, her initials are D.B. which has become short for Douche Bag in our home. Of course that first came out of my mouth, when my husband paused and said, "well, you're right about that". So sad isn't it! Got to find the lightness where you can!

shawn thewife said...

For all: There are no identical Affair partners. All people, the betrayed, the betrayers and the APs are unique in all situations. Some similarities?? Of course, but I have learned to judge each person individually.
We all get that, right? Some OWs are truly evil personified, the bunny boilers, but most are just regular women with some kind of mental issue that lead them to making a truly shitty choice. Lord knows, I get how bad choices can be made by otherwise intelligent, admirable people.
Richard has always maintained that Jaymie was a lovely girl. Not the brightest bulb in the box, which worked in his favor, but very kind. He hated himself for using her in such a despicable way. Was she old enough to know right from wrong? Sure. Will I ever forgive her for that? Nope. But, to everyone else on the planet...she is a very sweet girl.
Get where I'm going? Spewing hatred at every OW is pointless.
The anonymous OW that commented above deserves the same courtesy I expect everyone here to show any new betrayed spouse that wants to join our little support group. The more perspectives available to us, the greater our opportunity to move ahead on our Road to Happy.
I <3 all my readers!
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

Anonymous said...

You are right. In rereading my post I realize it may have seemed like an attack on the anonymous OW that posted....not my intent. It's been a bad day. Apologies.

BS said...


Regarding cutting the OW some slack.

I initially did that. I felt empathy for her. She was 30, trapped in a marriage to a man she never loved, she had no work skills and no means of escape.

But her continued stalking is causing problems and I am concerned she may be a bunny boiler.

Yesterday she parked a block from my home and has no reason to be in my neighborhood. I took a picture of the license plate.

My husband was with me and he first noticed the car and turned whiter than freshly laundered hospital linens.

She continues to call late at night and slams the phone down when I answer. She is obviously using a disposable phone to make the calls.

She recently sent me an anonymous letter claiming my husband was only staying with me because it was cost effective. She insists he really does love her.

My husband also said he chose her as an OW because she was totally unsuitable for marriage.

She was the one who made all the first moves....I know it's true because I saw all the emails and texts. Some were mailed to me, the rest I used a recovery program to access.

She initiated the first meeting, after talking at a coffee shop, by offering to take my husband to a strip club, her treat.

She talked about prior affairs and constantly talked about her sex toys and such.

She even kissed him first. Of that first kiss, my husband now said it was a lousy kiss.

She grabbed him, smashed her face against his with her lips locked tight and than ground her face against his. He said it was one of the weirdest kisses.

Still, many of his co workers had bragged of affairs and he was getting curious. When she came on to him, it was the perfect opportunity and he claims difficult to turn down.

Not a good excuse, but it does point out that she was NOT special, just available.

He at least was honest enough to admit that at first he was very physically aroused by her, but than that soon started to wear thin.

A lot of people do think she is a sweet person, people who don't know her well.

I don't feel she was taken advantage of given that she had many prior affairs, detailed graphically in her emails to my husband.

Also She mentioned in one text that she was looking for another long term affair partner.

She hinted that she might leave her husband for him, but wasn't yet sure.

In response my husband's emails during their affair shows he sternly warned her that he was only interested in a short term affair and reiterated that he had told her that from the getgo.

I would really like to stop thinking of the OW at all, but she is determined to stay in the picture.

Anonymous said...

To the former OW... if you are so remorseful, did you do anything to let the BS know? I know I would have loved to have known that she was sorry. I know everyone makes mistakes and I am sure my H lied to her like he lied to me, but knowing that would have made it easier for me. I don't blame the OW... I blame my H but knowing she was not a slut chasing after my H would have made my post Dday a little better.

Conni said...

To the people who had the problem with the OW commenting need to kindly get a grip. I have been the OW & I have been the BS, so because I was once an OW, that means I can't post here? Gimme a break. I want to hear from everyone so I can learn from my mistakes, and learn what to look out for in the future. Don't blame the OW's for their past mistakes, especially when she kindly stated how terribly remorseful she is, it's not like she came here harrassing the betrayed. This isn't grade school. Your husband's could've said NO to the OW but guess what, they didn't, so now you're going to get to get mad at some random OW's that you never even met on an infidelity blog and yet you go home & play house with your husband every night, the one who betrayed & lied to you? Um yeah that makes tons of sense. We should all support & learn from each other no matter what side of the fence you are on.

Anonymous said...

Dear Shawn the wife: I have to state at this point that Jaymie is now, to me, a stupid bitch. There you got it from me, one of your biggest critics. She is undeniably stubborn - as much as you. If she would have given you the gosh damned emails - maybe, just maybe, unless you are lying totally, you would have finally left her alone. I don't know, maybe you wouldn't have left her alone. But you sure weren't leaving her alone by her not giving you the f'ing emails. Why the F didn't she just give you the f'ing emails!! Christers, I want to know
what is in them now!!!

Why wouldn't she just give you the emails? Huh? What is your theory, oh crazy one. It's ok, it's not name calling, it's endearing at this point. You are crazy for doing all that and I'm crazy for staying and ruining my life by choosing so horrendously wrong.

Anonymously crazy.

Anonymous said...

To any OWs... I won't attack you. As Shawn says, someimes otherwise admirable people can make shitty choices. It would be hypocritical of me to try to save my relationship while spewing hate at the OW, or worse, OWs in general. I do think that she is arrogant and narcissistic (this from the emails and texts I have seen from during the affair) but a. want nothing to do with her and b. ralise that this is not always the case. Hell even she might be coming off that way because she is overcompensating for her own insecurities, just like I know I can get loud when I am nervous for the same reason. HOWEVER I agree with the anon who says that just maybe, in some way, if you are an OW who is remorseful, a simple "sorry", not in person but via note, email or whatever would make it easier. If she had said "I'm sorry for what has happened", I would feel better. Not sure why... but I would.

Anonymous said...

I didn't see any real direct attack of the ow poster or you Connie....unless you consider a comment about not being special a direct insult. i tend to think that all of us.... bs or ow have to deal with the fact that we were not as special as we thought we were post dday. What i see in my comment and a few others is just a chain of responses about the specifics of the ow in each of our lives that were triggered by the topic , or the curiosity about the ow's feelings about being contacted by the bs. That latter issue has yet to be addressed. Since we are in mixed company, and in the spirit of learning and growing from this tragedy, I would still like any ow on this blog to share that insight with us.... It would help me to be able to see that we are all just people with feelings.

Anonymous said...

Shawn: you never mention anything about jaymie's mother. What is the piece of the puzzle you are leaving out here? You mention your mother, grandfather, etc. Richard's family, but only Jim, the father of Jaymie.

Also, because of your behavior, I fear you will never get the real truth. This is not all Richard has done, but far. You should have been more patient and loving. Gotten everything. Now, he knows what you do with even the slightest bit of information. He knows to give you info about the chick you had proof on. He knows you know there has to be more, so let's let her think it was just a stripper and 2 flings 20 plus years ago.

Please. There is so much more. But it's probably better you keep in your cocoon of Jaymie is the reason for all your pain. If you would have waited and been patient. You could have gotten a full disclosure through a counselor who does that. But it needed to be done through a counselor who knows how long it takes to get the full story from a man who has lied to everyone in his life, including himself for all his entire life - a liar his entire life, Shawn. It takes time to clear the out all the information, to find the missing links. Then a poly, just to make sure - to keep things on on even keel. Yes you can say they don't work and are not accepted by the law. That's ok. Denial is your friend.

BS said...


I think you need to get a grip. No one has objected to the anonymous OW posting here.

We are simply telling her what we think of OWs.

It seems you are objecting to our Betrayed spouse conversations.

The OW must know, unless she is very dim, which IMO, anyone who gets involved with a married man is somewhat dim, so maybe that's the case, but I could be wrong, she must know she will get some responses she may not like.

As for all of us Betrayed spouses supporting an OW, too.

Give me a break, sweetie pie. OWs know what they are doing when they date a married man.

I offer them no support. IMO, they are degrading themselves.

Some, who beg their affair partners to leave their wives or to "choose them," are poaching a married man and attempting to ruin a marriage.

It's well established that men have affairs for sex and variety, ego stroke, or a sense of entitlement.

Women have affairs because they are unhappy in their marriage.

Some, if not most,then go into a competition with the wife and decide they want the husband to leave the wife.

Albeit some OWs are sex addicts and they may only be in it for the sex, like the men, but that's rare.

The OWS are entitled to express their opinions, and no one has said otherwise.

But then they must be prepared to take their lumps.

I personally don't understand how someone who has the audacity to have an affair with a married man could possibly be so sensitive to criticism.

shawn thewife said...

To the Anonymous that asked about Jaymie's mother: at first when I called Jaymie's house I wanted to talk to her mom, but just by happenstance I ended up talking to her Dad. After that initial contact, I am not quite sure why I didn't try to drag her mom into the lurid loop. There wasn't much that first year after DDay that had reason behind it.
About not knowing all about Richard's cheating could be right. He may have had dozens of Jaymies. How will I ever know? Here's the deal with that....I don't care about yesterday anymore. I don't care if I don't know it all. I care about NOW. What is happening in our marriage NOW. If i had continued to dwell on THEN, I'd be the Mayor of CrazyTown!
For reconciliation to be successful, at some point you gotta accept what happened, then set it aside and move forward on the Road to Happy.
So don't worry about me. It isn't about living in denial. It's about living in the present.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Conni: there are very few comments that I don't publish . I believe we can benefit from every post in one way or another. Because I publish most comments I receive without editing, some may cause a few other readers to get their panties in a bunch.
My hope is that more times than not we glean positive opinions and learn from helpful factual experiences than we ever find ourselves in a pair of twisted undies.
Hope and Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Anonomously Crazy: I can only surmise why Jaymie never responding to any of my many attempts to get the emails. Once her Dad found out about the mess, he probably told her to stay out it. He'd handle it knowing full well she was no match for me. I doubt he had any idea how HARD I was pressing her until the "church" incident. I'l tell you about that next. In retrospect...she did the right thing. I doubt I'd have let her of the hook after getting the emails. Those wicked words would have just thrown fresh fuel on an already out of control fire.
Now I hope you'll answer this...why are you CHOOSING to ruin your life? I can't imagine it.
Please share. Maybe we can help.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

bs said...

Hi All:

Regarding BS's coming to terms that they were not all that special to their husbands.

I see it a bit differently. IMO, the affair has proved I am special to my husband because he does not want to lose me.

It may have taken an affair for him to appreciate me, but I think he does appreciate much more now than prior.

He has worked hard to make amends, and in many many many ways, my husband is a better husband. I am treated much better now than prior.

Prior my husband was often condescending towards me and although I am well educated and earned a decent salary, he earned more and treated me like the little wifey.

He no longer does that, and recognizes all my contributions, work, home, etc.

IMO, that is what counselors mean when they say that if both spouses want to continue in the marriage, it can be a better marriage.

It is certainly better for me, in more ways than I can detail.

Of course there is the pain and the lack of trust, but I really think having my husband fall off the pedestal I placed him on, and taking off my rose colored glasses is a good thing. No one should be trusted 100 percent.

I will never trust my husband again, but I never should have given him so much freedom from the getgo.

I also can understand that a person might desire sex with a new person, without wanting to destroy their marriage.

It is an immature expectation, but I can understand how if someone is sexually aggressive and promises, at least initially, no strings sex, that it might be a lure.

I am attracted to other men, sometimes.

It's just that I have always been a super responsible person and have always been able to foresee the consequences of my actions in graphic detail and that enables me to excercise more self control, IMO.

Most people who have affairs do eventually get caught, but I think a lot of people, perhaps those that lack emotional maturity, convince themselves that they won't get caught and they can keep the two lives separate without any bleed over in behavior that gives off major clues to cheating, and that no one will ever get hurt.

Alas people get hurt when an affair disrupts a marriage, particularly the loyal spouse.

Counseling would have helped so much more, but I don't think that most men have affairs due to problems in the marriage.

They have affairs because they are turned on by a stranger and they crave variety.

My major beef with OWS is that why go after a married man?

There are plenty of single or divorced or widowed men around.

Why not go after one of them?

My answer to that is that they likely can not attract a single man.

Studies show that women affair up and men affair down.

That suggests that OWs, have difficulty attracting single men who sexually or emotionally arouse them.

Hence they go after a married man because he is hoping she means what she says when she INITIALLY promises no strings sex.

A less than average OW can more easily find an attractive or desirable male that is married because he's hoping she just wants a an affair not marriage or anything long term, as would a single guy.

Also if she's also married most marriage worthy single men would not be interested in her as wife material.

Anonymous said...

I found this site looking for some answers on how I got myself involved with a MM. If you would ask anyone who knows me, they would defend my character to the end. I am a former wife, and a great mom who attends church, etc. The man I was involved with not only said he was getting a divorce but asked for one on numerous occasions. He took me on trips and spent two weeks out of every month staying over at my home. Everyone knew about me, there were no hiding our relationship except his wife. She figured out he had someone by the sheer amount of time he spent away from home. But he never told her about me until the end and they wouldn't tell her who I was because he wanted to protect me and hopefully get back together. She had to find out who I was on her own.

He had previously had 3 other girlfriends before me so I figured he couldn't possibly love his wife to treat her in such fashion since she knew about all of them and stayed. It was crappy on my part to not respect their marriage but I honest and truly did't think they had one. Maybe on paper, maybe to her friends but his side knew and spent time with us as a couple. He asked to marry me plenty of times. I didn't agree to being the OW, he went out of his way to prove otherwise. He said he was already headed for divorce when he met me. I read some of her emails to him over the years trying to get him to work on their marriage and not stay together for their child (which implied she felt that was the only reason he was there). I read at least four of them in a two year span prior to me getting involved. So I believed him when he said he wanted out. He actually moved out and I think the stress of leaving his child, having no money and his family pressuring him to go back ended our relationship. I still believe he loved me very much and he is just too weak to do what he wants to do. All spouses who stay don't stay because they "want" to be there, some simply stay because its easier. If he loved her (at least in my thinking), he could never continually cheat, get caught and do it again.....just not possible. Also, I don't believe she really loves him. All of his friends said she didn't and they all thought they needed to break up. MM used to say his wife just didn't want to "fail" and put up a front on how great the marriage was. I know this probably isn't the place to bear my soul but I just wanted to get this off my chest. I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater so that is why I could carry on in the relationship with him. He broke up with me due to the pressures and reached back out to me a few months later to tell me he still loved me and was really sorry. His kid had some emotional problems and wasn't taking the separation well. Although he never admitted to moving back to me, I saw some pictures on line of his family. He had on the watch I got him and shoes. I couldn't believe it. He didn't even have the decency to get rid of those things and take family pics in them. I never contacted them and she never contacted me. If I thought he was in a loving marriage, I would have never dated him. I truly thought it was over and she was having a hard time letting go. Serial cheating is the ultimate betrayal so to keep putting up with it showed me this wasn't a real marriage. When reading these posts, I see how she must feel and for the first time, feel sorry for her. I don't think I ever would have if I hadn't stumbled across this blog. All OW aren't real homewreckers. Some of us were exit affairs that. In my case, he was just weak and guilty. He would prefer to stay and keep up the front, while I'm sure he will cheat again, to make her happy since he is the cause of her unhappiness. Had she been the one to finally leave, he would have jumped for joy. If that makes any sense.

shawn thewife said...

To the newest of our anonymous OWs: Believe it or not...I'm glad you found us. It helps for all sides of the infidelity triangle to learn from the others.
I'm also glad you get the pain caused to the betrayed spouses. It is a wound so deep I feel woefully verbally inadequate when I try to describe it here on these virtual pages.
I want to try and explain one more thing to you. First...once a cheater always a cheater...not always, but why in the world would you BEGIN a relationship knowingly with a cheater? How can you believe anything spewed forth with a forked tongue?
An honest man, if truly unhappy in his marriage will leave his wife before he seeks other companionship. The wife maybe evil personified OR she may be a Stepford wife. Usually, she is somewhere in between. The OW can never really know for sure. Affairs are based on lies and thus become fantasies.
Hope you stick around. Thanks for commenting.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

Anonymous said...

Hi Shawnthewife,

I could date him because everyone deserves a chance to do right. Because a person cheated before on someone doesn't mean they will automatically cheat on the next (no matter how you met). Ive seen it happen too many times not to know sometimes, the person you married was not the one.

And you are right, he wasn't an honest man. He wasn't honest because he is weak and a coward, not because he was a cake eater, there is a difference. We like to think husbands all cheat just for extra sex or the woman was easy to make it feel a little better. No one ways to feel like they were actually going to be replaced. Some BS stay simply to make the WS life miserable and the WS feels guilt for what they have done and take it. I do not feel like I lost any big deal, it hurt because I loved him but I got to leave the relationship baggage free.

Everyone knows they are not happy and she hides his cheating from everyone, including her family. Her family hates him. I believed him and looking back it was the wrong thing to do. I took ALL of the hits as his wife see him as the victim. He was the one who came after me with a vengance. I guess it is hard for her to deal with the facts of him asking for divorce and leaving. The image is more important than the real deal.

BS said...

To the other anonymous OW.

The story your married man told you to get into an affair is the oldest affair line in the book.

I knew that when I was single and heard it often. You know the wife is a bitch, we don't have sex, she doesn't understand me the way you do.

You just ASSUMED he was telling the truth?

Whether he was lying or not, he was still married and hence you were wrecking a home.

I am glad you now feel sorry for the wife. He lied to you about her, and now he is lying to her about you, most likely.

When I was single and approached with that bull crap line from a married man, I would just laugh and tell him to call me about a year after the divorce was final.

When they would ask why a year, I would say I don't want to be the rebound relationship.

I am glad you posted. Maybe other OWs will have their eyes opened.

Some men who have affairs tell the OW the truth, and are very upfront about only wanting an affair, not a serious relationship, but the OW still pursues and becomes competitive.

Those types of OWs are not only wrecking a home, but they are destroying their own souls.

You appear to be simply a naive women who believed one of the married men who have to lie to a women to engage her.

Next time a married man complains to you about his wife, now you know he is most likely lying.

The reality is that if he were truly unhappy, got no sex, and the wife was a bitch, he would file for divorce.

A divorce due to cheating always costs the cheater more in some way. So divorcing first would be smarter and wiser.

I also agree with Shaun, why in heavens name would any women want to go into a marriage with a man they barely know who is cheating on his wife with them because he is too much of a weeny to divorce her?

Didn't that strike you as something that was a bit off?

bs said...

To add to prior post to the other anonymous OW.

I reread your post and you mention that the married man you believed loved you more than his wife was continually cheating.

Did I read that right?

If so, why in the universe would you ever believe you are special.

It wasn't that he was so taken with you that he couldn't help himself.

He's done it before. He would likely cheat on you too, if he ever got his courage together to divorce his wife.

Lastly, IMO, very few men would stay in a miserable marriage no matter what the cost, unless he wants to stay in the marriage.

Divorce is not that costly to cheaters these days.

Anonymous said...

So, if we are playing… what is the best thing that could possibly happen if I do contact the OW, here would be my answer. That I walk up to her door and totally blindside her and ask her only if she has “something” to say to me. And she says yes, I am so very sorry for hurting you. I have had no contact with your H for over 2 years; I have come to terms with how sick I was in the mind. I was hurt and damaged and selfishly trying to feel better about myself, I have since found sobriety and a true relationship with God. I have confessed the A to ONLY my priest, and told no one of my involvement with your H. I am willing to set aside time to answer your questions (not too graphically as to be un-deletable in your head, but the hard truth of the A and the hard questions you ask)I am the one who pursued your H.I saw his vulnerability because you could see and sense his home life was suffering and he was struggling and I was in pain and we worked together for so long, so we created a false reality that made us feel better even though it was “false”. It was a horrible mistake, and if I could trade places with you right now, I would much rather be the one hurting than the one who caused anyone this horrible pain. I pray for your family and I will continue to do so. Then when I totally blast her and tell her off to feel better… such things as, you lost……I won…he dumped you…you deserved it…he loves ME, and I didn’t deserve this…. you were used as a drug because my H was suffering and you could have been ANY vulture waiting to swoop… you were used/abused and tossed aside and you only have yourself to blame for that. My H is ashamed of his behavior. He never loved you and he doesn’t even hate you. You are a non-entity in his life , and he never thinks of you because he was so relieved and glad it was over, you’re nothing but a black mark in his history, he a reminder of what a mess his life had become. She totally and 100 percent agrees. So, my H is doing everything right to help me heal,
The path is all laid out for a perfect recovery. Right???
WRONG…… every bad, angry, ugly reaction/emotion/pain/doubt/fear/shock/and bad behavior that us WS go through, I still had to go through, and NOW, not only had he been involved with this woman, and professed love for this woman and had sex with this woman, and worked with this woman for years in a same field of interest… but now…. She’s even the perfect OW!!!!! WTF????? How much harder do you think it was for me to believe that he truly loved me during those emotional, crazy days after discovery??? It was just as hard/painful and long-suffering and it served me no purpose, because I didn’t have that vilified hated selfish slut user whore to blame it all on. I had a human being, who was wounded, hurt and reaching out in a bad way for help and who grew and made amends. She was human being, a woman and someone worth love. UGH~
See my point??? It’s a no win situation. She is now not even a blip on the radar of our life, and my H and I are now truly healed and better than before… and we can all get there. But why prolong the journey and throw road blocks in your own way? Ugh, So, if you contact her she will either be the most horrible witch in the world who’s out to wreak havoc over you with lies and a baseball bat if necessary, or a true human being who messed up in a big way, who’s remorseful and is willing to make amends. Or she’s someone in between; ultimately she is not worth the effort/thought/and agony that we let the OW put us through. Concentrate on yourself, and your spouse. Heal yourself, and your spouse. Ask yourself and your spouse the hard questions that you need an answer to, and when you have to think of her, envision/imagine the OW in whatever particular way you need to, at that time to get through that particular emotion/lesson and move forward.
You’ll be glad you did later when you look back on your journey. I am almost positive of it.
Signed, Formerly Brokenonce.

Anonymous said...

You are correct. He is a liar. I got the better end of that deal quite honestly. It was never any competition between us because I didn't think she mattered due to the amount of time and the way he committed himself to me. I thought he was removing himself and getting a divorce. He moved out, asked her for it and everyone knew me, including some of his family. Plus, any man who repeatedly cheats on the same wife can NOT love her. He may be there for other reasons, but love is certainly not the one. I didn't say he spoke ill of her, he barely talked about but when he did, it was in nice terms. She seems to be a nice woman. He complained about things that most marriages have to battle but he always maintained he got married too young, she even said that in one of the emails I read. He's weak and I believe why he is still there. He may not want to be there but doesn't have the balls to upset his parents (who don't want him to bust up the family and his wife who wants to keep up appearances).

Anonymous said...

Last anonymous poster OW....I'm not sure YOU learned everything that you needed to after the affair. Your tone insinuates that you somehow still know his true feelings, why he stays, etc., but you seem awfully, and distastefully confident that it's about anything BUT love. Does that make you feel better to insist that he couldn't love his spouse even though he dumped you to go back to her? You are really quite full of yourself! What do you mean when you say...

It was never any competition between us because I didn't think she mattered due to the amount of time and the way he committed himself to me.

Let's evaulate this so-called committment to YOU for just a are right that there was never any competition....but not in the way you presume.

I do not see sneaking around and sleeping with someone while lying to the most important person in his life to be much of a committment to YOU. You didn't think she mattered, but it turns out you were wrong, and you didn't matter as much as you thought you did.

IMO, many affairs happen due to damaged egos. Some people have a voracious need to feed said ego....others have more confidence than to succumb to a basic, selfish desire to make oneself feel better. I think many WS have that problem, thus they go looking for ways to feed a broken ego, and they find someone that needs the same. I think many OW have the same need. Seems like you might have, and your post sounds like it is still your Ego doing all the talking.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous OW:

I see by your recent post that you are in a lot of pain about being lied to and deceived, I empathize with you.

Still, your continued delusion that this man, a serial cheater, is pining after you and does not love his wife, and that he was actually showing some type of commitment to yous, is sad.

It shows you have not learned a lesson about avoiding married men.

Do some research about unfaithful men vs. unfaithful women.

Unlike most women, men can compartmentalize sex and love. They are also more prone to seeking sexual variety. They also do not release as much bonding hormone as does a women after sex.

Also, ask any marriage counselor. Many unfaithful men are selfish and immature, and self absorbed, but they do love their wives.

This is often demonstrated to counselors by the fact that men and are often extremely devastated, often inconsolable, when the wife leaves after discovering an affair.

Typically too, it is the wife who initiates a divorce after an affair. It may be right away, or ten years later.

Please do some reading from reputable sources, it may shake you out of delusional self defeating thinking.

P said...

Ah, the "exit affair". The above comment brings back some memories. I am certain the person who was "in love" with my husband for nearly 2 years called the situation an “exit affair”.

My husband and I were good parents, but we just weren't getting along as married partners very well, focusing too much on our own jobs (and throw in a terrible anxiety problem, health issues, and then a financial recession which ruined our family business). Yes, we did separate during that time. And no, I never even knew she existed for over a year and a half, though many people did. We were living in separate cities, so, my husband’s friends, and even some family knew about her and just assumed I did, too. It would have been nice if anyone actually told me, but, I guess everything happens for a reason.

I am certain that the other person who was involved believed there was some big separation plan, but the absolute reality is that my husband and I never talked about getting an actual divorce, not even once. Even though we weren't living together, we still saw each other as a family, did things together with our kids, and spoke near daily. And though some of those times were lonely and miserable, I guess we had to go through it all to get where we are today.

Because we were separated, at first I thought it was my fault. I was willing to take all the blame of being a horrible wife who wasn’t kind enough to my husband. I thought maybe I “deserved” what happened. I didn’t even know if I was allowed to grieve like other betrayed spouses. After all, I had contributed to the situation. We had been living in separate houses.

Even though my husband originally told me it all started with the other person after I and the kids moved out, it wasn't too hard to find that it had actually started over a year before. The “exit affair” was really “an affair” and it did contribute to the breakdown of our marriage. But again, I guess everything happens for a reason, and though painful, this knowledge helped clarify some things for me that I hadn’t understood during our last year before the separation.

It ended shortly after I found out, and we got back together, though it took a few months of teenage-like drama type stuff with the other person. It has been tough, but we have been back together for over 2 years.

At first, I wondered many of the things the commenter talked about – were we together because of the kids and not because of some big “love”? And I can honestly say, probably yes, at first we were. But maybe that is OK. They are our children, and though the other person likes to minimalize them, really, thier needs were very important, too.

Each day now gets a little better, a little “easier”, a little more “normal”, and at the present time we have a much better relationship than we ever have in 20 years. So, even if it was the kids who brought us back together, I can live with that. We are back together and things are good. Maybe we’re not madly “in love” everyday, but we’re working on it, probably like most married couples have to. We definitely love each other, need each other, and don’t take each other for granted the way we used to. We are more of a team than we have ever been. Dare I say, we are happy.

I am certain the other person in my situation would say similar things to the comment. And at first that really hurts. However, when I take a few minutes to think about … the reality is the other person in my situation could call it “an exit affair”, pretend that her “boyfriend” was getting a divorce, pretend that he never really loved his wife or family, pretend the wife is controlling and horrible, pretend that “everyone” knew so it was OK, pretend he was proud to be with her, though she never once met his children in 2 years, but in the end, it wasn’t a real relationship at all. Though she thought she really knew, “loved” and “understood” my husband, it was all based on lies.

It was an affair. Not an “exit affair”, just a plain old wrong affair.

Sherry said...

Believe me, I have thought about going to my H's OW. I wanted to wreak havoc in their lives as they helped participate in wreacking havoc in mine. I know it's not something that is right and to keep them out of my life really is for the best, but there is that part of me that still wants at them. When I read what you did to Jaymie, I can't help but say, "good for you! You go girl!" Maybe she will think twice before she gets involved with a married man again. I feel like my H's whores got of scott free. Sometimes I think, where are their consequences. They got to have their "fun" with my husband and they are out there living a good life. No stress, no disruption, no devastation while I am here on the roller coaster from hell. Just doesn't seem fair does it?