After an affair, your life doesn't belong to you anymore. For over a year, I couldn't control my own thoughts.
The turmoil in my head was viciously repetitive but savagely random. With this blog, I began to exorcise the demons holding my head hostage.

Thursday, June 19, 2014

To CLETS or Non-CLETS? That is the Question.


Legal jargon, rules and specifics can be very dull and dry.  Being married to family law attorney, I understood more than the average temporary restraining order recipient.  But I didn't know dick about a CLETS or Non-CLETS order.
What I did understand was that for the time being I was under the restrictions of a temporary restraining order.  It demanded I stay the hell away from Jaymie.

Before I was served, I was settling into a much brighter place, out of Crazy Town, that was a Jaymie Free Zone.  I could have cared less that she wanted a piece of paper to make me stay away from her and any aspect of her wretched little life.
The key word in the above sentences: "BEFORE".  The order was a monumental trigger!  After I received the temp order, I dashed, unthinking, motivated by pure visceral anger and very few rational thoughts, out of my newly found Jaymie Free Zone right back to a rapid fire dangerous neighborhood in Crazy Town called, Fuck Jaymie and the Horse she Rode in on!

So close to moving on and out of Crazy Town, but when Jaymie decided to push me, I was determined, almost compelled to push back.  I was certain I could wipe the floor of the El Cajon court with her boney ass.  She would rue the day that she challenged me and spread her stick like legs for my husband.
(For any new readers...PLEASE remember, I am writing this about the past.  I have learned much since then.  SO MUCH!  Most importantly, wasting time, energy or emotion on the other woman or man, is less than pointless.  It's self-sabotage.  If they stay out of your life, if a strict no contact policy is maintained...let the trollops go!  They will do nothing but hinder your recovery.)

'D' was working like a rabid legal beagle to sell me his peace plan.  I'll briefly try to share the particulars.  As I said before, what I had now was a temporary restraining order.  In court, Jaymie would ask for a permanent order.
My attitude continued to be:  She could have the damn thing but I was gonna make her pay through the soul to get it.  I told 'D' that I wanted my chance to tell my side of the torrid tale.  'D' was a quick study.  Richard must have schooled him.  'D' didn't tell me to do anything.  He didn't tell me what I couldn't do either.  He shared options.  The solution that Jaymie had already agreed to was the one he hoped I would buy.  I didn't have much time to dwell on it.  We were supposed to meet in court in two days.

This is what I learned:
CLETS:  California Law Enforcement Telecommunication System.
It's a data base designed to enforce restraining orders.
Once you get tossed into that data base, your name pops up with a big red check stating how naughty you've been anytime there is any type of law enforcement checking your ID.

 There's really only one difference between the CLETS and the Non-CLETS...but its BIG.
A CLETS is filed with Law Enforcement.  A non-CLETS isn't.  It is merely the same order agreed upon between two parties AND approved by a judge.  If the terms are violated within the agreed time period, the Non-CLETS automatically becomes a CLETS.
Get it?  If not...no biggie.  This ain't law school.  

Just know that 'D' was all about getting me to agree to a Non-CLETS so I wouldn't be detained by police if I got pulled over for a speeding ticket and I wouldn't have to go to secondary when reentering the country.  Stupid pain in the ass bull pucky like that made the Non-CLETS look pretty good.  I mean, who wants to worry that a piece of paper could make every cop and immigration official look at you sideways??

'D' was quite convincing.  He explained that Jaymie had already agreed to the Non-CLETS.  If I agreed to it as well, 'D' would take it to the judge to be signed the next day and I would not have to go to court at all.  Jaymie and I would never cross paths again.
Richard didn't say squat, except maybe, "It's up to you, Honey."
Was I ready to give up my last chance to purge the poison in my gut, let it rise like bile and spew it all over Jaymie and her clan in court?
You'd think so, but I needed to be slapped around...in a compassionate sort of way.

Enter the members of the Healing Heart.  I went to the message board that had recently jump started my walk on the Road to Happy.  I posted the issue about court.  What I thought I wanted, felt I needed and what 'D' strongly urged me to do.  
It didn't take long for for me to hear the responses loud and clear.
Let her go.
Don't give her anymore of you.  
She has taken too much already.  
You can't recover with her in your life.
There's nothing you could say to her that will help heal your marriage.

Lots of replies.  All of them the same.  What all their inspirational words said to me was:
I gotta run as fast as I can from Jaymie and Crazy Town! This is my moment!  Make the right choice today for a better tomorrow!

That's the day I truly let Jaymie go.  I thought I had weeks before, but the restraining order had me locked and loaded with renewed animosity.  With the support of the amazing mentors on the Healing Heart, I was empowered to face my future completely Jaymie-less.
I felt 1000 pounds lighter!  Jaymie was a burden that I should never have tried to carry.
I let that thought go, too.  What's done was done.  I was gonna learn to focus on NOW and let THEN take a distant backseat.
The relief was as life changing as it was fleeting.

46 comments:

Tina said...

First of all, Shawn, I really want to thank you for writing this blog. It helps to know that I am not "bat shit crazy", that other people have gone through or are (unfortunately) still going through what I am. Sometimes, as I am sure you know, it feels very lonely and isolating to be a betrayed spouse. My husband and I are about 15 months out from the first D-Day, with a few small blips between then and now. The most recent was last month, when the former OW texted my husband asking if he ever loved her or if he misses her now. He did not tell me about it, but he accidentally sent his response text to me instead of her. Boom! Afterward, he showed me the back and forth of the convo, him telling her that even if I leave him, he doesn't want her. He said he didn't tell me because he was scared of my reaction. He now understands that if there is ANY communication between them-or if she reaches out to him in any way-he needs to tell me. We are in MC, and he is doing everything the MC says to do. I am just scared to let "her" go. She has set up a Pinterest account-she doesn't follow anyone and she has no followers- and has filled it with crap directed to me. Her most recent stunt is to put a new daily message on her home page, a message directed to me. The one today says "I won't give up!" The MC, my 2 best friends, and my husband all tell me that it is emotional cutting for me to look at it daily. I know this. My question is-how do I stop? I really do want to let go of her, I just don't know how. You give such good advice, that is why I am reaching out to you....I do love my husband, but everytime I look at the Pinterest of the OW, I get pissed and cranky with my husband. He keeps asking what he can do to help, and I don't have an answer. I do know that if I continue to be bitchy to him, he will get fed up and leave. Not for her, just leave to be alone. I don't want that. I want this bitch out of our lives for good. Help! :)

Kate M. said...

It's great that the HH folks helped you to release the weight of a 1000 pound bitch whore (sorry, couldn't help myself.) But the relief was fleeting... I'm wondering if that's because then, you had to face Richard's betrayal head-on without the distraction that being so focused on J provided. I'm still not able to do that fully yet, and I know it. It's so fucking painful. And scary.

Looking forward to the next chapter...

BS said...

In my personal opinion, the betrayed focus on the OM or OW too much, at first, for the reasons Kate M mentioned.

It kind of diffuses the anger at their spouse to displace their anger onto the interloper in the marriage.

I do think the OW or OM deserve some anger. After all they interfered in a marriage, too. It's not like they are an innocent victim.

The only victims are the clueless spouses, who are oblivious to the affair, and are still doing all the things at home or at work that trusting spouses do.

With that said, I think it's really outrageous that someone like Jaime would even be able to get a restraining order against a victim spouse.

I seriously do think that breaching the licensed marital contract should be some type of crime, even if only a misdemeanor for both the cheating spouse and the interloper.

I think making it so would prevent a lot of OWs or OM from thinking it is okay to file against a victim spouse simply for asking for emails or restitution for gifts.

If the OM or OW were charged with a crime, it would take away their credibility in a court.

If breaching the marital contract were criminilized, the OW would likely automatically be made to make restitution, along with the cheating spouse, to the victim spouse, for any funds spend on the affair, behind the faithful spouses back.

A lot cheaters spend huge sums of money on an OW or and OM and that embezzles money from the children and the victim spouse.

I hear time and again, that a lot of victim spouses feel there is no justice after an affair, even if the spouse stole marital assets to conduct the affair.

Maybe criminilizing affairs would prevent OW or OM shenanigans like Jaimes actions, and also provide to the victim spouse a sense that justice has been served.

At the very least Jaime's filing a restraining order was immoral.

It was adding insult to injury.

The affair was an intentional infliction of emotional distress onto Shawn, and filing the restraining order, another intentional infliction of emotional distress.

I truly have no doubt that some day Karma will catch up with Jaime.


shawn thewife said...

Tina: I wish I had a simple, sure fire system that would make you go cold turkey with the OW. I only know you'll let the bitch whore go when you're ready. You have to take back your life. It's all about your desire to move forward, to focus on what your WH is doing for you now, not what he did to you then.
It ain't easy, my friend. It takes iron will. I did have a mantra I used when I began to fixate on any part of the affair, including Jaymie. It went like this:
I do not need to think about this now.
It will not help me to think about this now.
I will not think about this now.

When I craved a peek at her Facebook page, I would pause and repeat those words over and over until the urge passed. Then, I thought about what I learned on the Healing Heart. By keeping her in my life, if even secretly, behind a computer screen, I was giving her power. I was loathe to let her take anything more from me. Finally letting Jaymie go felt like victory!

You can also come here when you feel like checking her Pinterest page. Click on me instead! We can help talk you down, Sister! Or...go the Healing Heart. Write a lot, read even more! It is such a safe place.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

Kate M.: you never have to apologize for calling an OW names around here! It's easy and fun! Like shootin' fish in a barrel! LOL!

Good call about using Jaymie as a distraction. She was like a force field I placed around Richard to protect him from my wrath and in turn, protect what was left of my marriage. Transference is how some of us deal with trauma when the real issue is just to big to comprehend.
Facing the real pain takes a huge leap of faith that we are stronger than we think. With support, we all become braver, stronger and smarter. Affair recovery ain't for light weights. We are tougher together!

The fleeting relief I spoke of was due to an unforeseen monster pothole on my Road to Happy created by a judge. Such a cluster fuck.
(See! Potty mouth can be fun! ��)
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

shawn thewife said...

BS: I hear ya. I often think that the no fault divorce laws in CA do make cheating easier, but I think the only winners would be lawyers, like Richard, if the laws allowed for cause. There are still a few states out there that allow a BS to sue the OW for damages after an affair. Its based on the loss of sex and/or affection from the cheating spouse. It's called loss of consortium. I soooo would have done that if it was legal in CA. That's a big reason why I'm glad it's not. A legal battle like that would not have helped me heal.

Looking back, I see the restraining order as a good thing. While dealing with the choice of letting Jaymie go or taking her apart in court, I found a braver, smarter me. Almost the old me. Maybe Jaymie did me a favor! I should be grateful......nah!
She can still suck it! LOL!
I am cracking myself up this morning! ��
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

TryingHard said...

Tina

I do the same thing. Difference being reading her social network pages ie Pinterest gives me an insight into her habits. I have learned so much about her by doing this crazy spying. But it has actually helped me to move on. I don't feel like doing this is giving her any power. I want to know what she's up to. She may or may not know I look I don't care. There's an old saying, Keep Your Friends Close, Keep Your Enemies Closer. Nothing she can say or post can hurt me. It's her experience. She doesn't want to move on, her problem. I hope she is suffering. I hope I see posts that she is suffering every fucking day of her pathetic life!

Stay strong but if checking up on her pages makes it worse DON'T DO IT. Like Shawn said, you need support come here we can help talk you off the ledge.

TryingHard said...

BS

I live in a state that doesn't have no fault divorce. Yes I agree with everything you said here and I am one of those betrayed. I'm talking 10's of thousands!!! My lawyer was champing at the bit to sue the OW. I had so much damning evidence and even was ready to bring her own family in to testify against her. I would have done it too. Now it's a moot point. She's scared shitless of me and that's just how I want it. She's stayed away because she knows I could make her homeless and her life a misery. I haven't done anything to antagonize her so she knows staying away is in her best interest. Besides she has a terminal case of cancer so she's not long for this world. Plus a whole lot of other bad Karma. Too bad so sad and it sucks to be her.

BetterEveryDay said...

TryingHard and Tina,

I too spy on my husband's bitch/whore OW…I even set up a "faux" FB account and she accepted my friend request…I nearly peed myself with glee!! I have never retaliated for the affair in any way, not even telling her unsuspecting husband or children. She has gotten off scot free because I decided not to complicate my life and our marriage's recovery by dragging her sorry ass back into our lives.

I totally embrace the saying Keep Your Friends Close, Keep Your Enemies closer. For all of the years she was fucking my husband and trying to convince him to leave me, she was pretending to be MY friend. Sending us her family Christmas cards and befriending me and our adult children on Facebook. She is such a selfish and manipulating person that I just couldn't resist the opportunity to keep an eye on her and wait for the Karma bus to pick her up and take her for a ride.

Is it healthy for me? Probably not. But I feel a sense of justice simply by pulling one over on HER! She's the one that thought she was so clever as she traveled with my husband for business and left me, the sweet and trusting wife, at home with not even a clue as to what she was up too. If she is gonna go down in flames (and I pray she does) I want a front row seat...

TryingHard said...

Better

I would love to be able to stalk her FB page but she has privacy settings on that preclude that. Can't do that on Pinterest. I did see some FB stuff earlier though. She's actually pretty boring :/ Can't do that on Pinterest. LOL I love reading all her stupid self help posts and she has nothing under "Her Syle" which is because she has none. But oh you should see all the tacky DIY beauty treatments and crafts she has posted. Actually I think she has ADD. She goes from wanting to write a book to tacky craft after tacky craft. She's all over the place. It's funny what you can learn about a person looking at this stuff.

She's been married a couple of times and has had countless boyfriends and one night stands. I had a friend who worked for the county that got me all the info I needed on her. She signed up for a dating website called CitySex where she specifically asked for a Beneficiary! I always believed she was in it for the money and she did really good on that part. She could have cared less about my husband. She only saw him as her banker that she had to fuck once in a while. It's really so pathetic.

BetterEveryDay said...

Shawn…

I love that this post is mainly about your realization that you needed to let go of your obsession w/Jaymie. I am inspired by the fact that, eventually, you were able to do that. What do you think was the tipping point for you? when were you actually able to get her and the brain worms about her out of your head? I sooooo want to be over my slight revenge obsession, but it haunts me still. Perhaps it is because I knew her personally and feel betrayed by her as well as my husband. And I know some of it has to do with her haughty sense of entitlement to a relationship with MY man, all while having a husband and children of her own.

Anyway, I wonder if some of the other betrayed spouses posting here may also feel like the OW got away with a big fat lie while portraying themselves as some exemplary human beings (kind of like Jaymie and her churchy cohorts). Maybe that is why you tried so hard to expose J. for who she really was, and I can't really blame you for trying. My feelings about that revenge itch that I can't scratch? "I can't get no…..sat-is-fac-tion." Maybe my satisfaction will have to come from being a good and moral person who would not cause that kind of intentional harm on another human being. And I also try to remember that saying "living well is the best revenge" and live my best life every day. But as far as these OW and karma? A girl can dream...

BS said...



TryingHard posted:

"BS

I live in a state that doesn't have no fault divorce. Yes I agree with everything you said here and I am one of those betrayed. I'm talking 10's of thousands!!! My lawyer was champing at the bit to sue the OW. I had so much damning evidence and even was ready to bring her own family in to testify against her. I would have done it too. Now it's a moot point. She's scared shitless of me and that's just how I want it. She's stayed away because she knows I could make her homeless and her life a misery. I haven't done anything to antagonize her so she knows staying away is in her best interest. Besides she has a terminal case of cancer so she's not long for this world. Plus a whole lot of other bad Karma. Too bad so sad and it sucks to be her."

------------

Trying hard:

I love your attitude.

In my state we can't sue the OW in an affair for alienation of affection or anything similar.

But I do think society lets cheaters off the hook too easily.

The fact that Jaime is allowed to file a restraining order against the victim is but one example.

A marriage is a licensed legal entity. She defrauded one of the partners in the marriage out of time, money and energy.

So did Richard, but he is repaying Shawn for that transgression. Jaime has not.

If Jaime used Shawn's driver's license she would be in jail. But if she destroys her marriage, despite it being a state licensed contract, she gets off scott free, and even gets to sue her victim.

What kind of message does that send to society??????????

I can in my state sue the still stalking OW, if she does something that will actually enable me to get a restraining order, like pulling into our driveway instead of driving past the house on a public street, or if she makes a call from an identifiable number belonging to her, or talks to me.

I can then sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

If and when that happens, I intend to sue. I don't care if it makes the lawyers rich. I want to publicly humiliate the whore.

The whore OW actually tried to file a harassment charge against me because I told her pastor of the affair, the police told her they could do nothing once they learned that the information I gave the pastor was 100 percent true. It was simply the truth it wasn't even gossip or slander.

The police did call me, but I did not return their call and instead had my lawyer contact them to show them the slutty videos she sent, and slutty texts and bodice ripper emails I had.

This OW loves money, and was willingly taking my marital assets for her own enjoyment. She is one of those high maintenance women and her husband spoils her rotten.

I want to take a chunk of change out of her wallet. I know that will hurt her more than anything else. She's a gold digger type.


TryingHard said...

BS

I couldn't agree with you more. However when one sees our legislators acting like boors and having affairs and even presidents and presidential candidates, it's no wonder this kind of behavior has to legislation.

While I don't want to start anything with the OW, and trust me I've done enough, should she decide to interfere in my life I would most definitely press charges. But actually I think I could actually make her life hell on my own. I've already done it where she is in trouble with unemployment and the IRS! Not thinking she thinks an IRS Tax Levy is too funny right now.

I as well actually commend Shawn for making Jamies life hell. Maybe she'll think next time she decides to interfere in someone else's life. I do not however understand the restraining order. If someone isn't making overt threats how does one have a leg to stand on when requesting such an order from the courts. Do these cost anything? Did Jaymie have to pay something to the county/state to have this implemented?

Regardless, not being in Crazy Town is better than being in Crazy Town so I'm glad she went through it and is on the other side.

BS said...

Trying Hard:

I agree with your post.

Trying hard posted:

If someone isn't making overt threats how does one have a leg to stand on when requesting such an order from the courts.


-----------

Tryinghard:

According to my attorney, repeated unwanted contact after someone has been asked to stop making contact, and if that contact can be proved to be coming repeatedly from a specific person, the contact can be considered harassment, in my state and likely Shawn's state.

Shawn was never hiding her name. I don't think she wanted to. I think she had steam coming out of her ears when she contacted Jaime, and rightfully so. She also wanted to ream Jaime, personally, and rightfully so.

In my situation, the OW, is stalking by proxy. To that end the calls are coming from different phone numbers each time, and different people.

Although the caller makes comments that suggest the call is engineered by the OW, the caller does not identify herself as the OWs minion, and the number does not belong to the OW.

So far she's clever, but I know she will slip up. She has no self control.

If she talks to me, since she has already been asked not to, that would be considered harassment.

The laws also vary by state in the U.S.

KatesWorthMore said...

Your husbands made commitments to you not the OW. I find it funny how you all still stay married to men who lied & betrayed you & all the while after, you still allow him to boink you after all the pain he's cause. You still have so much time to place unecessary seething hate towards his mistress & her social media pages. No offense but you betrayed wives are misplacing your anger and it makes you look dumb, desperate, & bitter. The anger should be towards your husband and towards yourself because you know better than to stay with someone who threw away your marriage like it was nothing, all for a lay. Some you need to get a serious grip and read Chump Lady's blog. It's genius. The latest post is about "the fog" and it's hilarious.

shawn thewife said...

KatesWorthMore: I think you're swimming in the wrong end of the betrayed pool!
I have yet to find a more judgmental bunch than the regulars over at Chump Lady's blog. I will never understand how a person that knows the pain of betrayal can not show compassion for another woman that experienced the same suffering. We don't impose our choices on those that choose to end their marriages after an affair. Why must you try to force your choices cruelly down our throats? Maybe you're just here trying to drum up a few new readers for Chump Lady. Is her readership faltering? Not selling enough mugs?
Bottom line...there is no one Road back to Happy. I respect your right to find the Road that works best for you. It sure would be a breath of fresh air to get the same respect in return.
You still get my regular closing of hope & hugs because I am capable of empathy. You should try it.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

TryingHard said...

Hey kate

Thanks for the suggestion on the blog. I'll check it out. I love hearing other people's points of view. I especially love reading the blogs that the OW post on. I get sooo much inspiration and entertainment from their sob stories:)

You are 100% correct that the commitment from my husband was to me and not the O W. She has NO responsibility to me not even as a decent human because she has no decency to give. Trust me my husband and I have dealt with his/our issues, thank you very much. She also has no role in my life except of course when she decide to flirt with my married husband, send nasty emails and texts to my married husband, offer herself up on a silver platter to my married husband, beg for a job from my married husband , extort hush money from my married husband, blackmail my married husband, yeah there's no reason at all for me to hate her or wish total I'll well and total annilation of her very existence.

No offense taken and I couldn't agree with you more. My anger has and was totally placed on my husband for his choices. But guess what, he wasn't masturbating. There was a willing human being on the other side of that betrayal. And she has a face, a name and a character. Call me bitter, I don't care. I have no idea what your experience was or is and you sure as hell don't know mine. So why don't you go "boink" yourself and your opinions.

BS said...



Katesworthmore posted: Chump Lady's blog. It's genius. The latest post is about "the fog" and it's hilarious.


Kate:

First I agree you are worth a lot, I am glad you have that attitude.

I have the same attitude.

But regarding Chumplady being a genius. I think not.

I have read all chump lady's post. She was truly a chump in that she, BASED ON HER OWN WRITING, literally financially purchased both her prior husbands.

Chump lady brought more to the marriage than they did, and they ripped her off.

A man who takes large sums of money from a women is considered a Gigolo.

So, yes, a women who knowingly marries a Gigolo is a Chumplady. So Chumplady picked the right name, for someone like herself.

But, alas, Chumplady is projecting her own issues onto everyone, and bans people who disagree with her.

As for misdirecting anger. The OW and my husband have both been on the receiving end of my anger.

Both deserve my anger.

My husband chose to stand in the storm and treats me far better now than he did prior to the affair.

He always treated me well, but now he spoils and pampers me. I like that. :)

The OW on the other has no empathy for me, and actually sees herself as a victim and is a bunny boiler.

In my situation I saw emails in which my husband told her she was just a lay, in so many words.

Also she was the sexual aggressor.

So she put herself out as nothing more than and easy eager lay, and a cum bucket, and when she is treated as such she gets vindictive and goes bunny boiler on him and me.

The OW has made an enemy for life, in me, mainly because she went bunny boiler. I think she's a sociopath, and treat her accordingly.

I tell everyone she knows about what she did. One by one she loses friends, new ones and old ones. I inform her coworkers, or customers, whenever I can.

It really doesn't take much energy and it is very cathartic, each time someone drops her as a friend, or she loses a client, when they see one of the slutty videos she sent my husband.

I have the proof to back up my information, so it's very frustrating for her that she has no legal recourse.

Each time, someone requests proof of my claims about her, and I show them one of the videos she sent, and I see their stunned facial expressions, I feel vindicated and it makes me happy that in sending those videos and screwing my husband, she is ending up screwing herself so badly.

TryingHard said...

BS

YOU ROCK!!! I'm so proud of you! I can't believe there are still people so stupid to sext and send lascivious personally provocative videos. Don't they know that once you hit send it's in the web FOREVER? And really don't they think their target knows they have breasts and a vagina? SERIOUSLY, how old are these women? And if they have any age on them at all and aren't teenage women, most of that shit show needs to stay covered up!

To your point; it really doesn't take that much time to stalk someone. If spending 45 seconds on a stalk is bitter, well so be it for them. Maybe some people don't really know the meaning of bitter?

It's funny you say your husband treats you better than ever before, Mine Too! I mean it's crazy I don't really require that much attention but he is constantly spoiling me, loving on me, telling me how much he loves me, needs me, seeks out my opinion. He's really listening!! What the hell?? Hey I'm not complaining, it's wonderful and I can only say he took me so for granted and was so threatened by the OW that he truly saw that he was about to lose EVERYTHING good in his life. I tell you he buys me one more designer handbag or shoes or jewelry, I am going to have to open a retail store!!!

Let's all stick together here and help each other. I'm sad for the haters on this blog and I actually think it's only one person. I'm on other blogs and I don't see anything like this poster. I'm certain it's some connection to poor Jaymie.

shawn thewife said...

I don't want curiosity to send some of you running to Chump Lady's blog. IMHO...her blog is more about entertainment than real healing after infidelity. If you're looking for shits and giggles, she might be your cup of tea. Her one sided thinking thrills betrayed wives that made the choice to leave the cheater. It's nothing more than a sick fucking pep rally cheering on newly single betrayed spouses.
We all need and deserve support after DDay. That group marches to the monotone drum beat of "once a cheater, always a cheater." There is no room for additional rhythm.

If you have any hope of reconciliation, I suggest you steer clear of the Chump. She is a witty wench, but her side of the Road to Happy it is ALL about dumping the cheater. If you have any small fragment of your mind left open, if you believe each suffering betrayed spouse has a unique story and one size does not fit all, if you aren't ready to hail a single path on the Road to Happy as gospel, save yourself some time. Chump Lady's blog ain't for you.
Hope & Hugs....to ALL betrayed spouses, Shawn

TryingHard said...

LOL Shawn! I would only go there for anthropological purposes much the same as the OW blogs. When I hear the stuff they spew it only solidifies by belief that I did the right thing.

I could take on that "once a cheater, always a cheater" mantra very easily, but who's to say that I divorce this one that I won't get into a relationship with another? After all the stats are that up to 80% of men cheat! I won't know everything about him like I do my current "boinker" and besides news flash, A LOT OF PEOPLE LIE! I guarantee a new guy would lie to me to get me to like him. I'm a great catch!!!

Shawn, can't wait to hear the next chapter :)

Anonymous said...

I most certainly agree. You don't and won't heal til you leave. Tried reconciling for 13 years. I was where you R ladies seem to be...bitter, angry, unforgiving, going over the details over and over. They say 2 - 5 years. HaHaHa. That's funny. The pain didn't truly go, til I went. The ex and I are friends and I am ok with that. I didn't want to stay in a trapped relationship, feeling trapped with a former wayward. FREEDOM is letting go and starting over. Are you co-dependent or are you worth it?

Anonymous said...

BS,

Do you realise how bitter a person you have become.

I understand that one may not agree with chumplady ( I also find the blog a little too strident )and her views , but to attck her personally and calling her ex husband Gigolos?

Thats taking things too far.

That would also mean that when a man is richer than the woman he marries and supports her lifestyle that makes the woman a prostitute.

I am sure you did not mean that.

Or are we yet not comfortable with the idea of women becoming more and more financially independent?

And in your usual style ,BS , your reply will be very strident and cutting which would not merit an answer.

We may disagree with someones views , disagree with the manner of writing but to say that she bought her ex husbands? Thats a little too bitter.

Unless , you called them names since they were cheaters and they cheated while using and enjoying a betrayed spouse's resources, be that money or time or love or compassion.

In that case , my apologies to you.

Every name that you call cheating husbands is justified and more.

And does that mean , that it is the wayward husband that got your goat and not chumplady herself?

Or are we confusing a betrayed spouse's chumpiness with the deceit of a wayward husband?

Are we saying that chumplady deserved to be cheated on because she pooled resources with her husband?

So, she is responsible for her husband's cheating.

Are we too responsible for our husbands' cheating too ?

Or just because we chose to stay in the marriage( I too am with my cheating husband)its ok and because she dumped his sorry ass she deserved to be cheated on?

I am sure you did not mean to say that and am sure calling chumplady's husbands gigolos can be put down to one of them "bad days "
Shawn , chumplady too is a Betrayed Spouse , nonetheless. So what if she has dumped the cheater and moved on.

Some of your empathy here too, please

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: "You don't and won't heal til you leave"

That is quite the generalization. Maybe this is how YOU felt, but to say none of us will heal until we leave. Many have proven to heal and STAYED and worked it out with their WH. Especially when you have children, I think worth it to at least TRY and work on things. If you both try and it doesn't work, then so be it. I would never say to stay in a relationship "just because of the kids" as that is not a good environment for anyone. But IMO an effort should be made. Not all will agree, and I respect that. But to say "you will not heal UNTIL you leave.." Such a generalization and not fair statement. Everyone is different and some can get past infidelity based on their specific situation - tons of factors that go into each person's individual situation.

~Brenda

TryingHard said...

I went over to Chump Lady's blog and I have to say that I did not hate it. I actually read a very interesting interview talking about character disorder that I found very educational. That being said I have not read all of it. From just reading a few entries it does seem to be more of a place for those BS who chose to leave the marriage or whose spouse left the marriage.

I've found all these blogs have something to offer no matter what your choice is, to stay or leave. It's such an individual choice and what works in your life. To give every BS a broad brush stroke to say that the only way to heal is to leave or the only way to heal is to work it out with your wayward spouse is irresponsible and heartless. People stay and people leave for their own personal reasons and sense of moralities. What worked for you may not work for me as we are all individuals with our own individual life experiences.

I've always found it helpful when faced with life's challenges to really examine both side of the proverbial coin. I chose to stay. That does not mean that tomorrow I may chose to leave. That is my freedom that I have. I am in no way stuck, held hostage or co-dependent. It's what works for me and my conscience.

I am so happy for those of you that have left and are experiencing your needed healing and happiness. You deserve that and so do those of us who stay. I truly believe we can all learn from each other and that is the point of reading and participating in these blogs. Unless, of course, you are a totally ignorant asshat and deserve a good reaming for spewing hateful judgments and opinions.

Thing is if I go on someone's blog and make a statement that insults the blogger and she asks that I NOT participate on her blog anymore, I am happy to refrain. Yep I have that much self control and autonomy. It's their blog and they can say whatever they like. I went to a man's blog once, it was very dark but he made some really good male centered points. Well when I commented he was not too pleased and told me under no uncertain circumstances did he wish to hear from me. I obliged and have NEVER gone back. Actually he was pretty mean and insulting...LOL let's just say NARCISSIST!!!!

So to Anon who divorced and have found her true healing, MAZEL TOV!!! But beware, I have many friends who divorced and rightfully so but where still duped by gold digging men and paid the price. I guess for some, once a Chump, always a Chump :) Point is I AIN'T NOBODY'S CHUMP NO MORE regardless of with whom or how I choose to live my life.

BS said...

To the two Anonymous posts:

Aren't you attacking the people here? Attacking their choices?

Shame on you for being so cruel!!!!! ;)

If you are healed, after dumping your spouse, why do you seek out blogs like these?

Just for fun????????

I never post on Ms. CHUMPS blog.

I read it and when she started banning people from the Huffington Post who wrote very intelligent polite posts disagreeing with her too rigid stance on reconciliation, I stopped visiting.

The difference between you and me is that I am quoting FACTS and you are making assumptions.

BTW, Chumplady calls her ex husbands far worse things than gigolos. Have you actually read her blogs? Or do you simply look at the pictures.

Do you actually comprehend the definition of empathy.

When you post on the Chumps blog to support her, then you are engaging in empathy.

When you attack reconciled spouses on this blog, you are showing a profound lack of empathy and no sense of shame, guilt or remorse about it.

Perhaps the empathy center in your Amygdala is broken

Like I said, Chumplady tagged herself a Chump, not me.

Those men she married did NOT deceive her. They showed her immediately exactly what they were all about, according to her own words.

Chump is the name she gave herself. And, who am I to argue with her. ;)

I think you need to ask yourself why, if you are so happy, you are on this blog, chastising people who have happily reconciled.


anonymous asked: Are we saying that chumplady deserved to be cheated on because she pooled resources with her husband?
-------

No, anonymous, you are assuming that's what I said. What I am implying is that Chumplady was a Chump for bringing large sums of money to the marriage from day one, and thinking that was a safe or wise thing to do.

That's what con men do. They ask the women in their lives to immediately cough up large chunks of money right away, from day one into the marriage.

-------

anonymous wrote: That would also mean that when a man is richer than the woman he marries and supports her lifestyle that makes the woman a prostitute.
------

Do you really think that, anonymous? Shame on you. ;)

Have you no empathy?

Do you live in our society. A society where men are EXPECTED TO EARN MORE AND EXPECTED TO BE THE BREAD WINNER WHILE THE WOMEN RAISE FAMILIES.

Also, do you realize men still have more High-wage-earner job opportunity and women still earn 76 cents for every dollar a man earns.

anonymous wrote: I am sure you did not mean that.
----

Well anonymous you made the comment suggesting that low-wage-earner women women are akin to prostitutes, not me. So what made you say that? Is that your form of empathy?

Do you think a stay at home mom is a prostitute?

I look forward to your response.

Oh that's right you already said you won't respond simply because my posting will be as strident and cutting as yours. Is that suppose to bother me?

You apparently like to dish it but...... ;)

BetterEveryDay said...

What the what?? Why are people coming over to Shawn's site to argue, criticize, and defend "Chump Lady"? If you feel like a chump, or that your cheating husband is a chump, then by all means, go to her site and commiserate with other like-minded people!!

If my husband was a serial cheater, was not painfully sorry, had not crawled on his hands and knees begging forgiveness of me and our children, I might too, consider myself a chump for staying in the marriage. But for me, my marriage of over 30 years to a man who I love and who loves me, and who is making big-time amends to me and our family deserves more than a toss to the curb. That is MY decision, and I am here on Shawn's site to be encouraged by other like-minded spouses (it is a support system, get it?)

Just because I am staying with my husband, I would never CONSIDER going to a pro-divorce website (aka ChumpLady) to preach the virtues of staying with a cheating husband. My circumstances are not your circumstances, and if your husband is a POS and your marriage is over then by all means, get the hell out of it. And I am happy for you that Chump Lady exists so that you, too, have a group that supports your decision to leave.

So as the saying goes…"can't we all just get along?" After all, we betrayed spouses have much in common. Unless these anonymous posters are OW, I don't for the life of me understand the need to try and convince those who stay in their marriage that there is something wrong with them, any more than there is something wrong with those who choose who leave. Good luck and blessings to all..

dslak said...

I've been following your blog for a while, Shawn, and I really appreciate knowing that I'm not the only one who went for an extended stay in Crazy Town in response to their partner's affair. I think you may be mischaracterizing Chump Lady a bit, though. Although she is more strident than you, she does indicate that she believes reconciliation is possible, so long as the WS takes responsibility for their actions and seeks to atone. She's just skeptical (perhaps excessively so, but that's understandable given her history) that most cheaters will change their ways. I think the real benefit she offers is to help those who are feeling powerless and worthless to get some measure of control and meaning back in their lives.

My partner left me for the other person, so I didn't have much of a chance to experiment on how to fix things. In that kind of a situation, you find out that your friends and family don't have much that's useful to say, despite their good intentions. Having someone there who could talk about things with a focus on protecting my future interests sure would have helped.

shawn thewife said...

Dslak: my limited experience with Chump Lady was through Elle, writer of the Betrayed Wives Club. She posted about a comment she left on Chump's blog requesting the possibility of showing some compassion for those that choose reconciliation. Let's just say, the Chump clan did not welcome her into the fold of diversity.
Of course, I couldn't keep my fingers from my keyboard and left a few carefully chosen words in her defense...a true exercise in futility.

Since then, I have had more than a couple of trolls from Chump's negative side of recovery comment here. Most of them have very few (rarely any!) kind thoughts to share. I try to remember that they have suffered, too, and sometimes I reach out to them with an open mind. And sometimes they catch me when I'm not feeling so patient. On those days I type away and try to rip them a big fat new one. That usually happens when I haven't had my morning tea yet.

I'm very sorry to hear of your pain. Most people don't get how much we have to internalize because we have no one to talk to that truly understands the struggle.
If Chump Lady helps you find your Road to Happy, bravo. I never said she doesn't serve a valid purpose. I only wish she could be more open minded about those of us that are confident and happy in our decision to reconcile.
On this blog we welcome all walking the Road back to Happy after betrayal. There is no right or wrong way to recover. We wanna support what YOU choose.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

dslak said...

It's unfortunate that some feel the need to denigrate those who reconcile with their WS, but I guess that's necessary to fit the narrative they've constructed where the WS is, and really was always, and irredeemable asshole. It might be true in some cases, but it's also obviously the case that some cheaters eventually leave the Fog and genuinely regret the hurt they've caused.


Some of my friends, as well as my therapist, tried to get me to buy the "she's just a bad person" line, but I know it isn't true. What my ex-wife did to me was really awful, but she's also gone on to put herself into volunteering and giving back to her community, so I guess she's trying to atone in her own way. People can be annoying complex.

Believing that every WS is beyond redemption can be a very good defense mechanism from future betrayals, so you don't make yourself vulnerable that way again. For those who trend introspective, that story won't hold up long in cases where the WS simply isn't an all-around worthless human being. And it's a narrative that's seriously imperiled by couples who have reconciled.

I'm remarried, and even though I really don't think my wife will cheat, love is also something different for me now than it was before. So I won't be denigrated and gaslighted, then beg for more, like I did the first time around. I suppose it's a bit like that Cat Stevens song, "The First Cut Is the Deepest."

Nadia said...

I stayed, but I won't jump down these poster's throats because I do believe there is some truth to what they are saying. I'm 5+ years out-closer to 6 now and I still have times where I can't believe it happened. Then there are other times where I briefly think about it but have accepted it as part of the tapestry of my life. And then there are still other times that I can't really remember my marriage without this horrible blemish on it. And still, there are other times where I look back at that "innocent" marriage with sadness.

So yep, I can really identify with what these chump lady fans are saying. I could've left the marriage, started a new life and I'm sure never looked back, but I didn't, so I don't have that luxury of forgiving and forgetting.

That's the price we pay when we stay. People may think I'm crazy for staying...hell I even think I am crazy for staying sometimes, but I am staying for my own reasons, @ least for now. I know I have the decision to leave anytime I want.

BS said...




I don't think anyone ever forgets a betrayal. It would be abnormal. Unless we develop amnesia, or Alzheimers

And to my mind that enduring memory is a good thing. That's the lesson.

Studies show that too trusting, easygoing spouses are cheated on far more often.

I was one of those clueless, too trusting, easygoing spouses. And, I had a husband who said he would NEVER CHEAT.

So for me to no longer be a TOO trusting naive spouse like I was, is an excellent lesson.

Whether I stay or go, I will still distrust the next person I date or marry. Thank goodness, too.

One huge problem I have with Chumplady's, blog, is that she presently insists that NOW SHE IS MARRIED TO A MAN WHO WILL NEVER CHEAT!

HUH!

Her knew spouse is an attorney, and that is one of the professions with a high risk for cheating, according to experts on infidelity. My spouse is also in high-risk profession.

So maybe Ms Chump, needs to get a clue.

On the other hand Shawn constantly states in her blogs that she is wounded and no expert and advises everyone to follow their own road to happy.

Chumplady, a name she chose for herself, who was married to two ex-husband's who took large sums of money from her, and also cheated, holds herself out as an expert and insists her THIRD husband will NEVER EVER CHEAT.

What???????? Ms. Chump is just as wounded as the rest of the humans on this planet. Yet, she holds herself as an expert, based solely on her experiences, not her psychiatry credentials. (credentials she does not have)

There is a saying that the definition of crazy is doing something the same way over and over and expecting a different result.

So yep, ya know what, I am doing things different, now. It looks like Shawn is, too, and others BSs who post here. I am proud of them all.

I was a wife who naively believed, as did many other betrayed spouses, that my husband would never ever cheat. And, yes, he too insisted he would NEVER EVER CHEAT.

Surprise!!!! He did.

So, Chumplady's professed blind faith that her new husband will never EVER CHEAT, is the most damaging message Chumplady's blog sends.

That damaging message is her insistence, that NOW, having dumped her former cheaters, she has found a man who will never cheat.

That's the gullible attitude that got her in trouble in her first two marriages. She's doing it again.....naively trusting her husband's word.

Obviously Ms Chumps "picker" (picker being her word) was twice broken, when choosing a spouse, and how does she now know that her picker is fixed?

Society is changing and it's making cheating easier. I am glad my eyes have been opened to that factor. It keeps me alert.

If I had a nickle for every time, I hear a betrayed spouse say that she KNEW her husband would never cheat, AND THEN SHE WAS BLINDSIDED BY HIS CHEATING, I would be a bazillionaire.

This experience has changed me. But I consider that a good thing.

As others have stated, I won't be a chump again and I will never trust a man to NEVER CHEAT.

My brothers used to tell me I was too easy going and gave my husband a too long leash. Well now the leash is short.

And, you know what, my husband seems happier with that discipline. He seems relieved to be told that NO, you can no go out to a bar with the boys, without me, and NO, you can not go on a men's only vacation.

I don't think anyone, man or women should trust a spouse 100 percent in the society we now live in.

Even people who have been cheated on in a a prior marriage sometimes cheat on a new spouse. That one is beyond me, but it happens a lot.

Marriage takes work and I think reconciled spouses realize that and endeavor to actually finally do that work.

If your former cheater is not doing the work, yep, dump him.

If he is doing the work, be happy. Personally, I would rather keep the devil I know. ;)

But the spirit in me honors the spirit in those who have chosen a different path.

TryingHard said...

BS

I hear you about the devil you know. I'm a woman of a certain age. I've seen a lot. That whole falling in love is for the young and dumb. Not going there ever again and frankly I have bigger fish to fry.

Yep my husband is flawed. More than flawed. And he's flabby, has hair growing out of his ears and less on his head. He snores and gets terrible allergies and foot fungus too. Guess what there's a million more just like him. But he's the flawed that I know and love and appreciate. I may hate him a little more but I don't love him any less.

I've set my boundaries too and they are mine. He can do whatever he wants to do. But if it means crossing my boundaries, I leave period. He's put his own short leash on, he can take it off. Difference is now there's no question as to the consequences!

Elle said...

Wow. Lots to say on this thread, Shawn.
I'll leave it to just this: Thank-you Shawn for your compassion and wit and showing us the many roads to happy. And, yes, for jumping to my defence when the sharks circled. I remain baffled by how my plea was perceived as blood in the water. However, as one commenter noted, perhaps when you've left or been left, you need a narrative that fits your experience and CL offers it up on a platter (or in a mug!).
I'm far more interested in coming out of this with a deeper understanding of myself and a greater empathy for anyone who's faced betrayal than with being right about whether some stranger's marriage is worthy of reconciliation based on some 20-point checklist. There are many of us who've determined that our marriages, post-betrayal, are worth rebuilding. I'm consistently grateful that I lacked the strength to leave for long enough that my kneejerk anger dissipated and I was open to even the slightest possibility of reconciliation. I'm where I want to be. We should all be so lucky.

Elle

BS said...

Trying hard wrote: I may hate him a little more but I don't love him any less.


Tryinghard:

Wow. Nail on the head. That's brilliant! Can I borrow your quote? :)

There are reasons to stay and reasons to leave. It needs to be an individual decision made on a case by case basis.

It shouldn't be a one size fits all mandate.

Kate M. said...

Ha, I was going to say the same thing, BS. That line of TryingHard's is priceless. :-)

BetterEveryDay said...

I just love you, Elle. Shawn's blog and BWC have been my lifeline for sanity saving advice post D-day. I only wish it hadn't taken me a year to turn to the internet for moral support.

The last 3 years of my life have been the hardest I have ever navigated, even with a loving and remorseful husband. I am eternally grateful for women like you and Shawn for being brave enough to put your stories out there, and for allowing women like me to share our stories, too. Why anyone feels the need to come here and criticize absolutely baffles me.

Thank you both for your candor, humor and compassion. I've never met you, but I consider you, and all of the supportive women who post here, my dear friends.

TryingHard said...

BS

LOL of course you can take the quote. I actually got it from a movie! I think it's pretty appropriate in many of our cases. I believe there is a fine line between love and hate and they pretty much co-exist. The opposite of love is indifference. Once you feel indifferent I believe that's when you should throw in the towel because then you are just existing. Where there is hate/love there's passion. The hate is never for the person, but what they did, so is love for that matter.

shawn thewife said...

Nadia: I don't think anyone jumped down the throat of the Chump Lady cheerleader. Oh, sure sometimes commenters get passionate around here. This is a very emotional subject and many readers are still raw from the wounds. This is a very safe place to vent. (except for those random pesky throat jumpers!)
This kind of subject can make a normally subdued person pretty damn opinionated and vocal.
Like you...I get both sides of of the "what to do after DDay" debate. There are so many options, not just stay or go. The only point I've tried to stress during this discussion is there is no right or wrong Road to Happy. I'm more than open to all of the possible paths. Tell me which trek you took. We all wanna know what worked for you. Just don't disrespect others that didn't follow the same fork in the Road.

Some people may have thought I was crazy for staying. Some might have said I was crazy if I would have left...who knows? Who cares?
Only the the betrayed know the real effort needed to save a marriage after Day.
I don't think staying with Richard made me crazy.
It was the CHEATING that did that.
I like your last line..."at least for now". That's all any of us have right? We gotta do the most we can with it.
Hope & Hugs, Shawn

BS said...



Kate M. said...

Ha, I was going to say the same thing, BS. That line of TryingHard's is priceless. :-)

July 1, 2014 at 8:56 AM



Yes. And, it made me laugh, too, because it's difficult to give yourself permission to admit that you can hate someone more, and still love them. :)

Anonymous said...

LOL BS ..so true to form , your replies, dissecting and re dissecting , analysing and reanalysing word by word.

And to get upset when some woman says she is sure her husband will not cheat? ..tch tch!!

You surely dont mean to say that all men cheat.. dont you?

Or do you mean to say that all chumplady's men will cheat?

WOW !!

BS said...

Anonymous said...

LOL BS ..so true to form , your replies, dissecting and re dissecting , analysing and reanalysing word by word.

And to get upset when some woman says she is sure her husband will not cheat? ..tch tch!!

You surely dont mean to say that all men cheat.. dont you?

Or do you mean to say that all chumplady's men will cheat?

WOW !!

July 4, 2014 at 1:23 AM



Golly Gee, Anonymous. I am so flattered.

Here you are dissecting and analyzing my posts.....and, on July 4th no less.

I am happy that my words are so important that you take time out from your holiday get togethers to analyze them. :)




Anonymous said...

LOL always want to have the last word , don't we?

Your husband say that to you anytime???

And now the issue is when someone gets on the web and posts?

Ohh yes, your point must be that you have a family and hence would not have the time to post on a holiday or did someone wait for a few days before posting ?

And yes, please have the pleasure of having the last word because am not going to be replying to your posts.:)

BS said...


Anonymous said...

quote LOL always want to have the last word , don't we?

Your husband say that to you anytime???

And now the issue is when someone gets on the web and posts?

Ohh yes, your point must be that you have a family and hence would not have the time to post on a holiday or did someone wait for a few days before posting ?

And yes, please have the pleasure of having the last word because am not going to be replying to your posts.:) unquote



I think you promised several posts back to no longer respond to my posts?

What happened? ;)

I doubt dear anonymous that you will be able to control your need to post your response, even as you continually promise you won't, on a forum filled with reconciled spouses whom you claim to disrespect because their choice was different than yours.

Personally, I don't know your situation.

Perhaps your husband left you. Or you post derisive comments on a forum filled with reconciled spouses because you made a rash decision to leave your spouse and, now, reading about successful reconciliations has caused self doubt about your own decision????

Or perhaps you are one of the OWs who was discarded like a used condom on Dday?

Whichever the issue, you are in a lot of pain and that is perhaps why you feel the need to lash out on a forum filled with happily reconciled spouses.

If you were happy in your choice, you would be posting on forum filled with like-minded spouses who dumped their cheating spouse, instead of coming to forum like this hoping to inflict doubt or pain on happily reconciled spouses.

The fact that you are here, only reinforces for me, more and more that I made the right choice in not acting rashly.

If your husband left you for the OW, you have my empathy, but you should still be glad you found out about his true self.

Also, I assure you that his relationship with the OW will not last. Statistics bear out that conclusion.

If you are an OW, then that too reinforces for me how pathetically damaged women who have affairs are and that their self esteem is so low that they have nothing better to do than to hang out on forums filled with reconciled spouses.

Seriously, you intrigue me and I look forward to analyzing your postings. :)

Lastly, This is a discussion forum. It's not a contest about the last word. You do understand the discussion and communication is a healthy thing....right? Clamming up is unhealthy. So don't clam up on me. I want you to be healthy.

Typically, I find that people who accuse others of wanting the last word, are the ones who in actually desperately need to have the last word, and projecting that on another is an attempt to shut down a conversation that they feel in their own minds that they can never win.


TryingHard said...

BS

Have I told you lately how brilliant you are???? :)

BS said...



rying Hard:

You are sweet!